The Strange Politics of Peter Thiel, Trump’s Most Unlikely Supporter • Hacker News Board

Re: The Strange Politics of Peter Thiel, Trump’s Most Unlikely Supporter

#21

Post by dirtyaura » Thu, Jul 21, 2016, 4:35 PM UTC

exstudent2 wrote: post #2

While I don't agree with everything Thiel believes, it's really, really refreshing to get a different take from the upper echelons of the tech industry. If you follow a lot of VCs and CEOs on Twitter you'll find that they have a nearly homogenous political groupthink. This industry needs more diversity of thought and Thiel stands alone in his strength to go against the grain and stand by his philosophy. Love his idea…

Are they really that homogenous? I'm not from the USA, but it seems that there are both republicans (Andreessen and Horowitz, for example) and democrats (Eric Schmidt and Jack Dorsey, for example) among VCs and CEOs. Younger generation might have Sanders-style social democrat tendencies, but there are a lot of libertarians like Thiel in startup circles, though most of them don't mix conservative religious stances like Thiel does.

Re: The Strange Politics of Peter Thiel, Trump’s Most Unlikely Supporter

#22

Post by SixSigma » Thu, Jul 21, 2016, 4:35 PM UTC

kenko wrote: post #13

exstudent2 wrote: post #2

While I don't agree with everything Thiel believes, it's really, really refreshing to get a different take from the upper echelons of the tech industry. If you follow a lot of VCs and CEOs on Twitter you'll find that they have a nearly homogenous political groupthink. This industry needs more diversity of thought and Thiel stands alone in his strength to go against the grain and stand by his philosophy. Love his idea…

There's nothing admirable about "going against the grain" in itself. Probably most people in the upper echelons of tech wealth don't think it's a great idea to deport Muslims, and don't support Trump. I see no reason to admire someone for having a different opinion on that matter just because it's different . There are lots of ways to "go against the grain" in the way you point out. You could be an unthinking dogmati…

> The eccentric investor is not like anyone else in tech. By Kara Swisher @karaswisher

> ... And many of those who like him personally and call him a "dear friend" are even perplexed, going as far as not talking to him of late because of his Trump support. "I’ve tried," sighed one such friend, who described a number of colleagues trying to pull him off the Trump train, including PayPal Mafia family member Reid Hoffman.

http://www.recode.net/2016/7/21/12241648/peter-thiel-trump-s...

Re: The Strange Politics of Peter Thiel, Trump’s Most Unlikely Supporter

#23

Post by falsestprophet » Thu, Jul 21, 2016, 4:35 PM UTC

bko wrote: post #16

> despite Trump’s advocacy of protectionist tariffs and extreme immigration restrictions, measures that would seem at odds with the radical libertarian image Thiel projects. This is what's most baffling considering Trump is the most statist candidate in modern politics. Most of his success is built on anti-immigration and tariffs. He may agree with more non-interventionist/isolationist foreign policy of Trump, but I…

Thiel has opposed mass [1] immigration to the United States which should not be mistaken with opposition to all immigration.

For context, only 15% of new lawful permanent residents in 2014 were selected for education or skill (the employment-preference category).

[1] like (but not limited to) anyone who likes strolling over the border or overstaying visas

Re: The Strange Politics of Peter Thiel, Trump’s Most Unlikely Supporter

#24

Post by goodcitizen147 » Thu, Jul 21, 2016, 4:35 PM UTC

davesque wrote: post #17

exstudent2 wrote: post #2

While I don't agree with everything Thiel believes, it's really, really refreshing to get a different take from the upper echelons of the tech industry. If you follow a lot of VCs and CEOs on Twitter you'll find that they have a nearly homogenous political groupthink. This industry needs more diversity of thought and Thiel stands alone in his strength to go against the grain and stand by his philosophy. Love his idea…

I don't understand how, in the case of tech CEOs, this so called "groupthink" is such a problem. The fact is, as you rely more and more on a system of reason and evidence to make your decisions, your opinions will tend to seem more and more consistent with other people who subscribe to that system. This consistency is just a side-effect of having a good system.

Yup that's why everyone was buying CDOs from Fannie Mae and flipping houses in 2007.

That's why everyone in 1940s Germany thought it was a good idea to eliminate the Jews.

Groupthink ftw!

Re: The Strange Politics of Peter Thiel, Trump’s Most Unlikely Supporter

#25

Post by goodcitizen147 » Thu, Jul 21, 2016, 4:39 PM UTC

maxxxxx wrote: post #19

toss1941 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What positions has Trump taken that you feel are against facts and adequate rational?

He makes up a lot of facts on the fly and then claims that he has been misinterpreted. The whole wall to Mexico thing and have Mexico pay for it is ridiculous. Now he questions the NATO treaties. I haven't heard anything from him that indicates deep thinking about an issue.

Why is building a wall ridiculous? Humans have been buildings walls for thousands of years.

Yes, NATO countries should be fulfilling their obligations under the NATO treaty.

Seems reasonable to question that.

> I haven't heard anything from him that indicates deep thinking about an issue.

You haven't heard anything as filtered through CNN, NY Times, Huffington Post, Vox, or whatever other rag you read. Just watch the man's speeches about foreign policy or the aftermath of the Orlando shooting.

Re: The Strange Politics of Peter Thiel, Trump’s Most Unlikely Supporter

#26

Post by vkou » Thu, Jul 21, 2016, 4:39 PM UTC

falsestprophet wrote: post #23

bko wrote: post #16

> despite Trump’s advocacy of protectionist tariffs and extreme immigration restrictions, measures that would seem at odds with the radical libertarian image Thiel projects. This is what's most baffling considering Trump is the most statist candidate in modern politics. Most of his success is built on anti-immigration and tariffs. He may agree with more non-interventionist/isolationist foreign policy of Trump, but I…

Thiel has opposed mass [1] immigration to the United States which should not be mistaken with opposition to all immigration. For context, only 15% of new lawful permanent residents in 2014 were selected for education or skill (the employment-preference category). [1] like (but not limited to) anyone who likes strolling over the border or overstaying visas

The net immigration rate to the US is 0.38%. That's hardly 'mass immigration.' I take it that means he's happy with the status quo?

And, if not, when is he going back to Germany?

Re: The Strange Politics of Peter Thiel, Trump’s Most Unlikely Supporter

#27

Post by bko » Thu, Jul 21, 2016, 4:39 PM UTC

falsestprophet wrote: post #23

bko wrote: post #16

> despite Trump’s advocacy of protectionist tariffs and extreme immigration restrictions, measures that would seem at odds with the radical libertarian image Thiel projects. This is what's most baffling considering Trump is the most statist candidate in modern politics. Most of his success is built on anti-immigration and tariffs. He may agree with more non-interventionist/isolationist foreign policy of Trump, but I…

Thiel has opposed mass [1] immigration to the United States which should not be mistaken with opposition to all immigration. For context, only 15% of new lawful permanent residents in 2014 were selected for education or skill (the employment-preference category). [1] like (but not limited to) anyone who likes strolling over the border or overstaying visas

> The billionaire tech investor has been a staunch opponent of immigration. Back in 2008, Gawker found that Thiel had donated $1 million to NumbersUSA, an anti-immigration group that has consistently been labelled racist and a firm fan of active population control.

...

> He then invested in the SeaSteading Institute which wanted to turn Thiel’s dream into a reality. The reason? He felt the government wasn’t doing enough to keep Silicon Valley stocked with foreign talent. [0]

Some mixed messaging here...

[0] http://thenextweb.com/insider/2016/05/10/shouldnt-surprised-...

Re: The Strange Politics of Peter Thiel, Trump’s Most Unlikely Supporter

#28

Post by exstudent2 » Thu, Jul 21, 2016, 4:40 PM UTC

smt88 wrote: post #6

exstudent2 wrote: post #2

While I don't agree with everything Thiel believes, it's really, really refreshing to get a different take from the upper echelons of the tech industry. If you follow a lot of VCs and CEOs on Twitter you'll find that they have a nearly homogenous political groupthink. This industry needs more diversity of thought and Thiel stands alone in his strength to go against the grain and stand by his philosophy. Love his idea…

> This industry needs more diversity of thought Sure, I agree. But there are some kinds of diversity that no industry needs. You wouldn't, for example, ever say, "Hey, Silicon Valley is full of non-racists. Let's get some more racists in here!" You'd instead be glad that Silicon Valley had a non-racist groupthink. The same is true of things like climate change, where "diversity" just means someone is dangerously wron…

I think it's more subtle than that. The racist thing is a perfect example. I absolutely 100% think that Trump's opinions are racist. _However_ I also find the "progressives" who attack whites and objectify every other race to be equally racist. But because the latter controls the narrative in our industry and the framing of the message, many can't see the racism there or won't even acknowledge that it may exist.

Re: The Strange Politics of Peter Thiel, Trump’s Most Unlikely Supporter

#29

Post by pm90 » Thu, Jul 21, 2016, 4:40 PM UTC

kenko wrote: post #13

exstudent2 wrote: post #2

While I don't agree with everything Thiel believes, it's really, really refreshing to get a different take from the upper echelons of the tech industry. If you follow a lot of VCs and CEOs on Twitter you'll find that they have a nearly homogenous political groupthink. This industry needs more diversity of thought and Thiel stands alone in his strength to go against the grain and stand by his philosophy. Love his idea…

There's nothing admirable about "going against the grain" in itself. Probably most people in the upper echelons of tech wealth don't think it's a great idea to deport Muslims, and don't support Trump. I see no reason to admire someone for having a different opinion on that matter just because it's different . There are lots of ways to "go against the grain" in the way you point out. You could be an unthinking dogmati…

Beautifully explained. There certainly is a lot of Groupthink in Silicon Valley, but that doesn't extend to everything.

In Thiel's case, it unfortunately seems like he's turned into one of those rich people who is so far away from how most people live that he does not understand the consequences of some of his ideas. A common problem with the elite: although self-made elites usually have their past to reflect on and make better informed decisions (unlike e.g. the Koch brothers)

Re: The Strange Politics of Peter Thiel, Trump’s Most Unlikely Supporter

#30

Post by toss1941 » Thu, Jul 21, 2016, 4:40 PM UTC

maxxxxx wrote: post #19

toss1941 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What positions has Trump taken that you feel are against facts and adequate rational?

He makes up a lot of facts on the fly and then claims that he has been misinterpreted. The whole wall to Mexico thing and have Mexico pay for it is ridiculous. Now he questions the NATO treaties. I haven't heard anything from him that indicates deep thinking about an issue.

I'll be honest I haven't been following a lot of his positions on things other than what spills over into the tech/security folks I follow on twitter and various other sites. I didn't know about the NATO comments but here's what I learned about him just today [0]:

(edit: talking about whether Trump would defend Turkey if Russia invaded unprovoked): Trump said he would have to think about whether those countries “have fulfilled their obligations to us.” Trump clarified, “If they fulfill their obligations to us, the answer is yes.”

It seems pretty rational to me; he's saying that if a country like Turkey wants to acquire the benefits of a military alliance they need to pay their fair share. On the surface that seems reasonable to me and honestly, from reading here if Erdrogan got attacked by Russia I doubt most of Trump's enemies would shed any tears about his stance on NATO anyway.

[0] http://dailycaller.com/2016/07/21/trump-doesnt-care-about-er...