Why I’m Suing the US Government • Hacker News Board

Re: Why I’m Suing the US Government

#91

Post by Svenskunganka » Thu, Jul 21, 2016, 3:47 PM UTC

richardwhiuk wrote: post #59

Svenskunganka wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if this suit is successful, it would mean that Section 1201 violates your First Amendment rights which in turn means that EULA also violates your First Amendment rights.

No. The First Amendment limits what the government can do to restrict your right to free speech. The DMCA, and Section 1201, is the Government limiting the power of freedom of speech, and so the First Amendment is applicable. By signing a EULA, you are accepting a limitation of your freedom of speech and (along with other factors - e.g. money) gaining some compromise instead (a car). That's not First Amendment territ…

Ah, thank you for clarifying! I'm not a US citizen so I don't know much about the US-specific rights and laws.

Re: Why I’m Suing the US Government

#92

Post by BenedictS » Thu, Jul 21, 2016, 3:53 PM UTC

I've made an account just to wish you good luck! You're a great man for doing this and I'm glad EFF is on board.

Re: Why I’m Suing the US Government

#93

Post by mountaineer22 » Thu, Jul 21, 2016, 3:59 PM UTC

astazangasta wrote: post #87

cwyers wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Twitter isn't profiting off their users, or at all for that matter.

Twitter has a market cap of $13 billion mostly because of content produced by its users. The only possible way it can make money is by showing ads to users (getting them to do free labor).

What does profit have to do with market cap.?

Re: Why I’m Suing the US Government

#94

Post by DoubleGlazing » Thu, Jul 21, 2016, 3:59 PM UTC

Good.

My wife is a speech therapist and uses a system that is designed to help people who have had strokes regain their voice.

It comprises a piece of software that comes with a "specially calibrated USB microphone". The microphone is actually a Samson laptop USB mic that had the voice improvement systems logo stuck on it.

The system came with lots of legal warnings about not copying, not telling unqualified people about how it worked and not to use an unapproved microphone. The DMCA was specifically mentioned.

One day the mic failed (the program requires patients to shout aggressively at the mic) so my wife went off looking for a replacement. We had a few USB mics that we tried and and the application refused to acknowledge their existence even though they showed up in Windows. It became obvious that the software was checking the USB device ID. My wife went to the company that ran the system to get a replacement, but they said she had to buy a new copy of the software as well - total cost $659. So we took a chance and ordered a new Samson USB mic from Amazon for €30.00, but when it arrived it didn't work. It was the same model, but was a few generations ahead and therefore had a different USB device ID. My wife has some colleagues with the same package so I tested their mics and they had different USB device IDs and it became obvious that when Samson released a revision of the mic the company offering the system simply recompiled the code with he new device ID baked in and then re-branded the mic.

So, not wanting to shell out $659 for a whole new package I took the old and new mics apart desoldered the cartridges from both mics and put the new one in the body of the failed mic. It worked! Now technically this would be a violation of 1201 in the sense that the individual copy of the software they sold you was tied to the specific mic they sold you at the same time - they said so in the EULA. But lets be honest that's just nonsense. They were simply trying to sell more stuff - a tactic that seems fairly common in various fields of professional therapy.

This is the sort of problem caused by 1201. If we lived in the US we would have been in breach of the DMCA even though we copied nothing.

Also, the software is as ugly as sin.

Re: Why I’m Suing the US Government

#95

Post by danielweber » Thu, Jul 21, 2016, 4:01 PM UTC

astazangasta wrote: post #87

cwyers wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Twitter isn't profiting off their users, or at all for that matter.

Twitter has a market cap of $13 billion mostly because of content produced by its users. The only possible way it can make money is by showing ads to users (getting them to do free labor).

The joke was that Twitter isn't profitable.

Re: Why I’m Suing the US Government

#96

Post by mrmondo » Thu, Jul 21, 2016, 4:03 PM UTC

I fully support your cause.

I'm not an American and do not live in America but the problems with American (copyright) laws unfortunately affect the world on a global scale. I sincerely wish you all the best in your efforts and hope that other organisations as well as the (fantastic) EFF back you.

I stand behind you.

Re: Why I’m Suing the US Government

#97

Post by mountaineer22 » Thu, Jul 21, 2016, 4:03 PM UTC

alexbock wrote: post #50

gthtjtkt wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What happens when some maniac changes the software to make autopilot into full self driving, then plows into a minivan on its way to Little League practice? We can't let these hypothetical worst-case scenarios be an excuse to stifle innovation. What happens if we let people modify their microwaves and a terrorist uses his to give kids cancer!?!? What if we let people tinker with their toasters and somebody uses one…

> What happens if we let people modify their microwaves and a terrorist uses his to give kids cancer!?!? I know this was said in jest, but given the (generally unfounded) fears some people have about microwaves and cellphones I want to point out that exposure to unshielded microwave radiation isn't going to cause cancer (at least not any more than anything else that heats you up could somehow cause cancer) because mi…

What about cooking the marrow in bone?

Re: Why I’m Suing the US Government

#98

Post by onetwotree » Thu, Jul 21, 2016, 4:05 PM UTC

Svenskunganka wrote: post #44

DanBlake wrote: post #12

Unfortunately I believe that even if the suit was successful, we would just see more purchases become 'perpetual licenses', skirting the updated law. IIRC, Tesla was very heavily against letting anyone tinker and went to some extremes to stop it. It wouldn't surprise me in the least to see them make buyers sign a EULA in the future when you go to 'purchase' a vehicle.

But if this suit is successful, it would mean that Section 1201 violates your First Amendment rights which in turn means that EULA also violates your First Amendment rights.

Under American contract law you can sign away any of your constitutional rights. Be careful what you put your magic squiggles on.

Re: Why I’m Suing the US Government

#99

Post by greenshackle » Thu, Jul 21, 2016, 4:09 PM UTC

6stringmerc wrote: post #21

fweespeech wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am curious why, if they actually believe they have a good chance of success, this is only being filed now rather than in prior years? Has something changed? You need standing and money to sue. Based on the EFF release: https://www.eff.org/press/releases/eff-lawsuit-takes-dmca-se... > EFF is representing plaintiff Andrew “bunnie” Huang, a prominent computer scientist and inventor, and his company Alphamax LLC, whe…

So you're telling me Andrew Huang's business model is to make derivative content devices, for profit, without permission or compensation from the original creators and/or rights holders? I don't find this litigant to be sympathetic in the least (the second one, Green, is much more reasonable - though redundant to the John Deere case going on). My initial impression is that I might actually want Huang to lose, if the…

Yes, and VLC should have to pay movie publishers since they let users add subtitles over the video stream.

That makes a lot of sense. /s

Re: Why I’m Suing the US Government

#100

Post by onetwotree » Thu, Jul 21, 2016, 4:11 PM UTC

Good luck!

What's kind of cool about this issue is that it attracts support from citizens of all political stripes - whether you're a farmer who just wants to be able to fix his own damn tractor, or a hacker who wants to futz with proprietary hardware, the law is patently bogus.

Unfortunately, farmers and hackers have far less political influence than corporations. Hopefully by pursuing this through the courts and with adequate resources from the EFF some progress can be made that couldn't be in congress.