Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why I’m Suing the US Government

bunniestudios.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 327 posts

Re: Why I’m Suing the US Government

#21

Post by 6stringmerc »

fweespeech wrote: post #11
forgotpwtomain wrote: post #2

I am curious why, if they actually believe they have a good chance of success, this is only being filed now rather than in prior years? Has something changed?

> I am curious why, if they actually believe they have a good chance of success, this is only being filed now rather than in prior years? Has something changed? You need standing and money to sue. Based on the EFF release: https://www.eff.org/press/releases/eff-lawsuit-takes-dmca-se... > EFF is representing plaintiff Andrew “bunnie” Huang, a prominent computer scientist and inventor, and his company Alphamax LLC, whe…

So you're telling me Andrew Huang's business model is to make derivative content devices, for profit, without permission or compensation from the original creators and/or rights holders?

I don't find this litigant to be sympathetic in the least (the second one, Green, is much more reasonable - though redundant to the John Deere case going on).

My initial impression is that I might actually want Huang to lose, if the implications of what he wants are as stated. He's trying to justify "remixing" for profit without compensation to the original rights holders. That's hot garbage in my personal opinion as a content creator.

Re: Why I’m Suing the US Government

#22

Post by 6stringmerc »

zekevermillion wrote: post #20
6stringmerc wrote: post #15

Let's take a quick look at the understanding of Copyright law that this litigant seems to possess: > Before Section 1201, the ownership of ideas was tempered by constitutional protections. Under this law, we had the right to tinker with gadgets that we bought, we had the right to record TV shows on our VCRs, and we had the right to remix songs. Wait, before the DMCA "we" had the right to remix songs? Okay so this cas…

This case is well-planned activism. Bunnie and EFF team certainly know more about free speech and copyright than you or I do. Perhaps you don't likr the press release, but that necessarily simplifies and reduces the detailed arguments they will have to brief before the court.

We'll see about that. We can revisit this case when it goes further down the line, because I study copyright extensively and follow these cases often. It's not that I don't like the press release, it's that it contains factual errors and if you want to believe them, then that's not constructive.

Re: Why I’m Suing the US Government

#23

Post by 6stringmerc »

ivank wrote: post #19
6stringmerc wrote: post #15

Let's take a quick look at the understanding of Copyright law that this litigant seems to possess: > Before Section 1201, the ownership of ideas was tempered by constitutional protections. Under this law, we had the right to tinker with gadgets that we bought, we had the right to record TV shows on our VCRs, and we had the right to remix songs. Wait, before the DMCA "we" had the right to remix songs? Okay so this cas…

> Fair Use always trumps the DMCA This is not necessarily the case. > However, in a number of cases involving DVD decryption courts have held that there is no fair use defense in circumvention cases. In Universal City Studios v. Reimerdes, 111 F. Supp. 2d 294, 322 (S.D.N.Y. 2000), the court stated that "[i]f Congress had meant the fair use defense to apply to such actions, it would have said so."[5] https://en.wikipe…

Okay, that's a reasonable point. I recall that issue too, but forgot they used the DMCA as the lock-up point, re: copyright. I think the scope is extremely limited in that case though, which is an excellent point of contention (because I don't agree with DMCA > Fair Use in principle).

Re: Why I’m Suing the US Government

#24

Post by zekevermillion »

DanBlake wrote: post #12

Unfortunately I believe that even if the suit was successful, we would just see more purchases become 'perpetual licenses', skirting the updated law. IIRC, Tesla was very heavily against letting anyone tinker and went to some extremes to stop it. It wouldn't surprise me in the least to see them make buyers sign a EULA in the future when you go to 'purchase' a vehicle.

I can imagine tinkering with a Tesla could cause some heartburn for Elon. There are safety issues, which are real. What happens when some maniac changes the software to make autopilot into full self driving, then plows into a minivan on its way to Little League practice? Also interesting, recently heard about a guy who can reprogram some diesel trucks to get better performance (probably at the expense of NOX emissions, like what happened with VW). Still thought it was pretty cool that the truck was not locked down to prevent tinkering in this manner.

NOTE: I am talking about what the company's perspective may be, not my own view of the risks.

Re: Why I’m Suing the US Government

#25

Post by jliptzin »

zekevermillion wrote: post #24
DanBlake wrote: post #12

Unfortunately I believe that even if the suit was successful, we would just see more purchases become 'perpetual licenses', skirting the updated law. IIRC, Tesla was very heavily against letting anyone tinker and went to some extremes to stop it. It wouldn't surprise me in the least to see them make buyers sign a EULA in the future when you go to 'purchase' a vehicle.

I can imagine tinkering with a Tesla could cause some heartburn for Elon. There are safety issues, which are real. What happens when some maniac changes the software to make autopilot into full self driving, then plows into a minivan on its way to Little League practice? Also interesting, recently heard about a guy who can reprogram some diesel trucks to get better performance (probably at the expense of NOX emission…

Someone determined enough to rework autopilot to work everywhere is not going to be stopped by the terms of a EULA.

Re: Why I’m Suing the US Government

#27

Post by ZoF »

jliptzin wrote: post #25
zekevermillion wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can imagine tinkering with a Tesla could cause some heartburn for Elon. There are safety issues, which are real. What happens when some maniac changes the software to make autopilot into full self driving, then plows into a minivan on its way to Little League practice? Also interesting, recently heard about a guy who can reprogram some diesel trucks to get better performance (probably at the expense of NOX emission…

Someone determined enough to rework autopilot to work everywhere is not going to be stopped by the terms of a EULA.

Had the same thought, that would be quite the feat.

Re: Why I’m Suing the US Government

#28

Post by ryanswapp »

I studied section 1201 thoroughly during law school and I think this post doesn't give a fair characterization of it. The reason this statute exists is because companies were unable to devise protection for copyrighted works that hackers were not able to immediately circumvent. As a result, the government stepped in and created 1201 to make it illegal for someone to circumvent some form of access control that a company used to protect their copyrighted works. The purpose of the statute isn't to destroy but is to make it much less expensive for a company to protect its products. I don't see anything wrong with that.

Re: Why I’m Suing the US Government

#29

Post by madez »

markokrajnc wrote: post #10

"Our children deserve better." If you take children - they indeed mix and remix without worrying about any (copy)rights...

Practically all of mankinds knowledge is a result of freely mix and match creation and ideas of others, be it in the domain of language, arts, science or technology.

Copyright has gone out of control. Luckily not yet the whole planet bows to USA's demands. Let's hope that that will never be the case.

Post reply on HN