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The Case for Working in Silicon Valley and Living in the Rust Belt

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Re: The Case for Working in Silicon Valley and Living in the Rust Belt

#31

Post by zappo2938 »

ghaff wrote: post #14
zappo2938 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I strongly believe that if a person is starting in tech and not established with a reputation, they should move to a tech hub. It seems like a lot of people are going to downvote my opinion, however, I am sure that each and every person who does downvote this opinion lived in or near a tech hub when they started.

I suppose it partly depends on how broadly you define "tech hub." If that includes 20-30 places worldwide, I'm not going to violently disagree. If it means Bay Area + Portland + Seattle + ...? Then I will. Especially because "tech" isn't limited to web/social/mobile.

If you want to work on a yacht, you have to move to Fort Lauderdale until you are established. There is no way around it. You can be a doctor anywhere, but if you are going to do medical research you have to be in New Orleans, New York Boston, DC / Maryland, or Chicago, maybe the Cleveland Clinic. If you are Marine Biologist you are living in Woods Hole, Monterey, or La Jolla. If you are doing aerospace engineering you are going to be living in Virginia, Southern California, or Washington.

It is stupid to think that someone who wants to do 'web/social/mobile' can get a decent start outside of a place without lots of other people doing it. I don't think that there is anyone on Hacker News who can say they succeeded getting their start in the industry outside of a 'software' tech hub.

If someone wants to be a serious software engineer they are going to have to commit to living in SF, DC, Boston, Austin, or Portland at some point in the beginning. It is disingenuous to tell people who are starting it is otherwise. Part of the commitment of being a software engineer is living in a place with lots of other software engineers for a little while.

It is not fair to anyone starting out to say they don't have to move to where there is a lot of activity. It is so unfair.

Re: The Case for Working in Silicon Valley and Living in the Rust Belt

#32

Post by akavi »

liveoneggs wrote: post #19
lordCarbonFiber wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the difference is you're stuck living in a "nice middle class neighborhood" with a ton of space you probably don't need. For many people moving to cities the value of the area is worth many times the value of the space. I wouldn't trade my nyc studio for a McMansion back in bumfuck SC no matter how much you offered me; and I think there must be a large population that shares that sentiment.

when did SV become a "city" comparable, in any way besides housing prices, to nyc?

I suspect people like LordCarbonFiber (and myself) mean SF. Which technically isn't "SV", per se, but since the discussion is about cost of living, the same argument applies.

I, at least, agree with you when it comes to SV proper. At this point in my life, I wouldn't take any amount of money to live in rural South Carolina OR San Jose.

Re: The Case for Working in Silicon Valley and Living in the Rust Belt

#33

Post by ryandrake »

whack wrote: post #26

Be careful what you wish for. In a world where physical proximity no longer matters, American programmers earning 6 figures, will have to compete against programmers from South America/Europe/Asia, all of whom earn significantly less than 6 figures. There currently exists a massive salary gap between equally qualified programmers, living in different regions of the world. Eliminating the physical-proximity perks, wil…

In other words, if your job can be done from home or from Arkansas, it can be done from India.

Re: The Case for Working in Silicon Valley and Living in the Rust Belt

#34

Post by drewg123 »

I escaped a year ago & live just outside of Richmond VA now. We relocated back to the east coast to be near family, and because of my wife's career. I have to travel to the bay area at least quarterly, but it has worked out to be 6 to 7 times per year.

Given no other constraints, I'd never pick Richmond, as air travel from here to SJC/SFO is not great. I'd much rather live an easy commute from a major airport with direct flights to SJC or SFO. As it is, I can drive 2 (or 4 with traffic) hours to IAD and fly direct with a decent schedule, or I can fly from RIC and change planes with a fairly lousy schedule.

The cost of living is so much lower between real estate costs and state taxes that the economics are much better. The day I changed my address from Mountain View to Richmond in WorkDay was like getting a raise. Even if I was a consultant and had to pay for my own travel, the economics would still work out to be quite a better.

Re: The Case for Working in Silicon Valley and Living in the Rust Belt

#35

Post by ceit »

zappo2938 wrote: post #13
ghaff wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you seriously believe that glib statement? That if you don't move to the Bay area or a reasonable image of it you might as well become a fast food worker or whatever? Yes, there are certain advantages to industry job density but I actually find it rather bad advice to frame a career in tech as inherently depending upon living in a half-dozen or so cities--that can't begin to accommodate everyone.

Yes, I strongly believe that if a person is starting in tech and not established with a reputation, they should move to a tech hub. It seems like a lot of people are going to downvote my opinion, however, I am sure that each and every person who does downvote this opinion lived in or near a tech hub when they started.

That's a really obnoxious viewpoint. I guess if your idea of the tech industry is only google, facebook, etc then okay.

You've cut off more than half of the industry in favor of the big companies and vaporous startups though. You can easily make nearly as much with a way cheaper cost of living elsewhere fam.

Re: The Case for Working in Silicon Valley and Living in the Rust Belt

#36

Post by jazzyk »

whack wrote: post #26

Be careful what you wish for. In a world where physical proximity no longer matters, American programmers earning 6 figures, will have to compete against programmers from South America/Europe/Asia, all of whom earn significantly less than 6 figures. There currently exists a massive salary gap between equally qualified programmers, living in different regions of the world. Eliminating the physical-proximity perks, wil…

Software development is not coding only. For quite a few roles, proximity does, and will always, matter.

Re: The Case for Working in Silicon Valley and Living in the Rust Belt

#37

Post by vvanders »

drewg123 wrote: post #34

I escaped a year ago & live just outside of Richmond VA now. We relocated back to the east coast to be near family, and because of my wife's career. I have to travel to the bay area at least quarterly, but it has worked out to be 6 to 7 times per year. Given no other constraints, I'd never pick Richmond, as air travel from here to SJC/SFO is not great. I'd much rather live an easy commute from a major airport with di…

Yup, similar story here. We moved for family + get out of the city. Cost of Living was something we knew was going to be lower but man, is it lower.

It takes some adjustment and I'm sure that remote work isn't for everyone but if you can find a team that it works for it really feels a bit like the future.

Re: The Case for Working in Silicon Valley and Living in the Rust Belt

#38

Post by paulcole »

douche wrote: post #18
lordCarbonFiber wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the difference is you're stuck living in a "nice middle class neighborhood" with a ton of space you probably don't need. For many people moving to cities the value of the area is worth many times the value of the space. I wouldn't trade my nyc studio for a McMansion back in bumfuck SC no matter how much you offered me; and I think there must be a large population that shares that sentiment.

That's really the tradeoff. Some people like trees and grass and a modicum of peace and quiet and privacy. Other people like to live in the caves of steel, with a seething mass of humanity flowing all around. I think you can guess where I stand on the matter. You couldn't pay me enough money to relocate to Manhattan or San Francisco.

"Other people like to live in the caves of steel, with a seething mass of humanity flowing all around."

I thought you were talking about cars at first.

Re: The Case for Working in Silicon Valley and Living in the Rust Belt

#39

Post by jeffbush »

While I've successfully managed distributed teams (and there are a number of companies that do it heavily), working remotely is not a panacea. There is definitely something to be said for face-to-face communications. People miss out on a lot of hallway conversations when they aren't in the same place. There are a lot of other tribal dynamics that come into play when you separate people, even when they're at opposite ends of the same building.

Even a company like Google with global presence and an amazing proprietary internal video chat system generally discourages remote working and often defrags teams (reorganizes them so they are all in the same geography). And while it may be possible to get your current employer to let you move out of state, many employers are going to be reluctant to hire someone who is already remote and is an unknown quantity in terms of output. This potentially limits job mobility, one of the perks of living in a tech hub.

Re: The Case for Working in Silicon Valley and Living in the Rust Belt

#40

Post by mac01021 »

zappo2938 wrote: post #31
ghaff wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose it partly depends on how broadly you define "tech hub." If that includes 20-30 places worldwide, I'm not going to violently disagree. If it means Bay Area + Portland + Seattle + ...? Then I will. Especially because "tech" isn't limited to web/social/mobile.

If you want to work on a yacht, you have to move to Fort Lauderdale until you are established. There is no way around it. You can be a doctor anywhere, but if you are going to do medical research you have to be in New Orleans, New York Boston, DC / Maryland, or Chicago, maybe the Cleveland Clinic. If you are Marine Biologist you are living in Woods Hole, Monterey, or La Jolla. If you are doing aerospace engineering y…

> Part of the commitment of being a software engineer is living in a place with lots of other software engineers for a little while.

Why? I am a professional software engineer with a job that involves working with the some of the latest trendy tools for building distributed systems (Kafka, Zookeeper, etc). But I've never lived in a tech hub.

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