Alleged founder of world’s largest BitTorrent distribution site arrested • Hacker News Board

Re: Alleged founder of world’s largest BitTorrent distribution site arrested

#211

Post by sangnoir » Thu, Jul 21, 2016, 9:14 AM UTC

olalonde wrote: post #191

Sacho wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it cognitive dissonance, or simply different people commenting? HN is not a hive mind.

Can't say for sure, just the feeling I get. HN comments usually seem pre-dominantly pro or anti copyright depending on context (e.g. "big company fails to comply with GPL" would result in mainly pro copyright comments while "bittorrent site gets shut down" would mainly result in anti copyright ones).

> HN comments usually seem pre-dominantly pro or anti copyright depending on context (e.g. "big company fails to comply with GPL" would result in mainly pro copyright comments while "bittorrent site gets shut down" would mainly result in anti copyright ones).

I wouldn't use the GPL as a copyrights poster-boy since it subverts the 'normal' use of copyrights (restriction of distribution by 3rd parties) - the FSF calls it 'copyleft' for that very reason. My feeling is that being pro-GPL and being pro-bittorrent is consistent with the "information wants to be free" mindset - no cognitive dissonance necessary. The day HN becomes pro-Mickey-Mouse laws then you would have an argument.

Re: Alleged founder of world’s largest BitTorrent distribution site arrested

#212

Post by kybernetyk » Thu, Jul 21, 2016, 9:33 AM UTC

josho wrote: post #18

I find it interesting that a Polish man was charged by US laws, rather than under Polish law. I think he opened himself to US law by hosting the servers at one point in the US. Regardless, it is rather fascinating that his first visit to the US could potentially be from extradition.

>I find it interesting that a Polish man was charged by US laws, rather than under Polish law.

Recent Polish policy is to become _the_ continental European ally to the US. So I guess this guy's fate is rather bleak as the Polish authorities will do everything they can to please the US.

He will get extradited and probably will spend the rest of his life behind bars.

Re: Alleged founder of world’s largest BitTorrent distribution site arrested

#213

Post by kybernetyk » Thu, Jul 21, 2016, 9:37 AM UTC

kevindong wrote: post #138

dmix wrote: post #80

Another black market business opportunity brought to you via fed money. DOJ, FBI, polish police, etc, etc all spent tax money on this takedown. All working so the next guy can make a website and make $16 million / year. And it only takes one guy to run the site apparently. Who knows maybe the next guy will use Tor, Bitcoin, read Grugq's blog and be 5x as expensive to hunt down. Thanks US tax payers!

The disincentive to start the next pirate website is the fact that the owners/operators of said website are subject to arrest and jail time. If actions like the ones in linked article didn't occur, you would find a large array of piracy websites pop up and operate with impunity. Under such a scenario, each website would individually earn less. Yes, piracy websites will always exist, but the purpose of these shutdowns…

>The disincentive to start the next pirate website is the fact that the owners/operators of said website are subject to arrest and jail time.

But it takes only one guy who thinks "they will never get me as I'm smarter" to have your next KAT/Pirate Bay that will (allegedly) cause billions dollars of damage.

Re: Alleged founder of world’s largest BitTorrent distribution site arrested

#214

Post by draugadrotten » Thu, Jul 21, 2016, 9:39 AM UTC

blackflame7000 wrote: post #2

If you think about it, torrent sites are like a modern day robinhood. They take profits from the rich and bring enjoyment to the poor.

> If you think about it, torrent sites are like a modern day robinhood. They take profits from the rich and bring enjoyment to the poor.

Over 2.1 billion people in the developing world lived on less than US $ 3.10 a day in 2012.

Downloading torrents means you've got a computer, power, internet and most likely food and clean water. You're not 'poor'. You're mingy.

Re: Alleged founder of world’s largest BitTorrent distribution site arrested

#215

Post by megous » Thu, Jul 21, 2016, 9:41 AM UTC

So if extradited he may be tried. Now has jury of your peers (fellow citizens) any meaning in case of trying a non-US citizen? Jurors must be US citizens, but they will not be his peers, really.

Re: Alleged founder of world’s largest BitTorrent distribution site arrested

#216

Post by UVB-76 » Thu, Jul 21, 2016, 9:42 AM UTC

eggy wrote: post #145

Aside from the legal technicalities here, I mostly ponder the future of IP. I think Napster positively affected the music distribution world in the long run. I am not very black-and-white on this issue, however, since there are many contradictions by both sides. I read the majority of comments here on HN about dated business models, big corporation dislike, the old executives don't understand the new market, etc...,…

It's the difference between copyright infringement for commercial gain, and for non-commercial, personal use.

I doubt many torrent site operators make much money from their operations, and if they do make a profit now, the level of risk (and prospect of bankrupting legal actions in the future) probably don't make it worth it.

Re: Alleged founder of world’s largest BitTorrent distribution site arrested

#217

Post by mdpopescu » Thu, Jul 21, 2016, 9:42 AM UTC

joering2 wrote: post #81

ikeboy wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone doing things that affect the US is automatically subject to US jurisdiction. But whether they can be extradited depends on the particular treaty the country in question has with the US.

Are there any good examples of when this works the other way around? A US citizen being extradited to another country for non-violent crimes? Something in tune of computer hacking or hosting a website? Other than drugs and murders, I have a hard time believing US govt to give out its citizens to third parties...

It doesn't happen even if it's murder. I know at least one case where an American soldier killed someone in Romania and was immediately sent back to the US instead of facing trial.

See https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/07BUCHAREST1286_a.html for details.

Re: Alleged founder of world’s largest BitTorrent distribution site arrested

#218

Post by cabalamat » Thu, Jul 21, 2016, 9:55 AM UTC

josho wrote: post #50

na85 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>media companies aren't exactly extorting the people, nor price gouging. In your opinion.

Ok, I'll bite. What makes you feel they are extorting consumers or price gouging?

Copyright and patent laws amount to extortion because they are enforced by initiation of force.

Re: Alleged founder of world’s largest BitTorrent distribution site arrested

#219

Post by agumonkey » Thu, Jul 21, 2016, 9:56 AM UTC

CaptSpify wrote: post #3

As an American, I wish we would stop doing this. It isn't effective, and it's a waste of time/resources that could be better spent elsewhere. I'd even argue that its counter-effective to progress. Instead of punishing people for making more efficient systems, we should reward them, and try to integrate.

Uber did develop a more efficient system by stepping on legal lines and gray areas. They did have troubles after a while but not in the same way. Somehow network distribution has no 'economic' values to the eyes of authorities. I'd love to see some stats, in my mind p2p sharing wasn't growing, even going down Compared to the 2000-2010 era since people have other means to share and content (spotify, soundcloud, ...) and the novelty has faded.

I do profit from it from time to time to reach for very old clips, lives or albums that you cant find. It doesnt really hurt business if they dont sell it.

Re: Alleged founder of world’s largest BitTorrent distribution site arrested

#220

Post by olalonde » Thu, Jul 21, 2016, 9:58 AM UTC

sangnoir wrote: post #211

olalonde wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't say for sure, just the feeling I get. HN comments usually seem pre-dominantly pro or anti copyright depending on context (e.g. "big company fails to comply with GPL" would result in mainly pro copyright comments while "bittorrent site gets shut down" would mainly result in anti copyright ones).

> HN comments usually seem pre-dominantly pro or anti copyright depending on context (e.g. "big company fails to comply with GPL" would result in mainly pro copyright comments while "bittorrent site gets shut down" would mainly result in anti copyright ones). I wouldn't use the GPL as a copyrights poster-boy since it subverts the 'normal' use of copyrights (restriction of distribution by 3rd parties) - the FSF calls…

I disagree that the GPL subverts the 'normal' use of copyright (though I'm aware it is presented as such by the FSF). Tons of copyrighted works are licensed for distribution by 3rd parties. Software licenses which allowed unrestricted distribution existed before the GPL. What the GPL innovated on was to put light restrictions on distribution to ensure modified source code would be made available along with binary distributions. In a world without copyright, there would still be tons of software without publicly available source code (perhaps more than now, due to the inability to enforce GPL violations).

Also, "information wants to be free" is more of a vague idea than anything else. I want information to be free. I'm a big user and proponent of open source software (heck, I wrote a non-trivial feature of Webtorrent). That doesn't necessarily mean I'm against copyright.