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Turkish government revokes ham radio licenses

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Re: Turkish government revokes ham radio licenses

#71

Post by [deleted] »

dragonwriter wrote: post #68
wildmusings wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather live under a liberal, pro-Western, secular military junta, than an illiberal democracy ruled by Islamists who are destroying liberties, hollowing out civil society, and turning the country into a Sunni version of Iran under the Ayatollahs. Fareed Zakaria has a great book, The Future of Freedom , where he discusses, among other things, the perils of illiberal democracy. The bit that really stuck in my head…

> I'd rather live under a liberal, pro-Western, secular military junta, than an illiberal democracy ruled by Islamists who are destroying liberties, hollowing out civil society, and turning the country into a Sunni version of Iran under the Ayatollahs. (1) The Sunni version of Iran under the Ayatollahs is called "Saudi Arabia". (2) Assuming the attribution of the coup to the Gülen movement is accurate, it would likel…

[deleted]

Re: Turkish government revokes ham radio licenses

#72

Post by lettergram »

jondubois wrote: post #69

And to think that Turkey was considered for EU membership - That's definitely off the table now. It's a testament as to how quickly Turkey has declined. Even without EU membership, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of Turkish people will try to relocate to Europe and elsewhere. This would be a massive brain and capital drain for Turkey - Especially given that this is a country which was considered safe and progressive…

They can try... they revoked a lot of people's ability to travel.

Re: Turkish government revokes ham radio licenses

#73

Post by MichaelGG »

ShakataGaNai wrote: post #58
niftich wrote: post #50

If you broadcast amateur radio, is it possible to 'hide' from enforcement? Are there mechanisms that an enforcement authority can use to find your physical location? Is it possible to ostensibly rebroadcast a government-approved channel, but with additional stenography or mixing to embed information?

Hide? Not really. Triangulation is very trivial with the right equipment. All you need is two directional receivers that are separated a bit. Rotate each one until you get the strongest signal from the broadcaster you're looking for. Now draw two lines on the map based on those two directions and you've got your probable point of origin. You could do something like relay your signal - but your relay will be found. Yo…

Cell phones used to bypass the official international connections are popular in countries with stupid regulation. One guy in Honduras used to run a phone bank (IP->Honduras) out of a van. He'd drive around to avoid being triangulated. When you make 5+ cents a minute per 20kbps stream, all sorts of stuff becomes interesting.

Re: Turkish government revokes ham radio licenses

#75

Post by MichaelGG »

jondubois wrote: post #69

And to think that Turkey was considered for EU membership - That's definitely off the table now. It's a testament as to how quickly Turkey has declined. Even without EU membership, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of Turkish people will try to relocate to Europe and elsewhere. This would be a massive brain and capital drain for Turkey - Especially given that this is a country which was considered safe and progressive…

Will they still get visa free travel to the EU? Seems like they have a big enough stick with all the refugees.

Re: Turkish government revokes ham radio licenses

#76

Post by Amezarak »

jondubois wrote: post #69

And to think that Turkey was considered for EU membership - That's definitely off the table now. It's a testament as to how quickly Turkey has declined. Even without EU membership, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of Turkish people will try to relocate to Europe and elsewhere. This would be a massive brain and capital drain for Turkey - Especially given that this is a country which was considered safe and progressive…

That may be bad for both Turkey and the countries they flee to. Turkey was/is a democracy. The people of Turkey created the current political environment. If they go elsewhere, they will be influencing politics beyond Turkey, maybe in similar ways.

Re: Turkish government revokes ham radio licenses

#77

Post by pound »

wavefunction wrote: post #16
viraptor wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do. I think the answer is "never", or "not as a result of this government". When there are internal issues present, military is fragmented and may not act when needed, etc. - that's the time when NATO should be most useful and most needed. Otherwise you get a country which cannot really defend itself and announce to the world - yeah, we don't really care about them anyway. Speculation - would Ukraine get attacked l…

>>Speculation - would Ukraine get attacked last year if it was a full NATO member? It would have already been attacked before that. That's actually why Ukraine was attacked in fact. Putin doesn't want NATO expanding up to Russia's doorstep. I understand the Russian concern about NATO expansion even if I don't agree with their direct aggression.

while you are correct about Putin not wanting NATO on russia's border it's not why Ukraine was attacked. Not external causes (NATO) but internal issues/ideas/reasons, whatever sick they are

Re: Turkish government revokes ham radio licenses

#78

Post by edthrowaway »

twblalock wrote: post #7
Relys wrote: post #6

This is going to end poorly... False flag or not, the coup has given Erdogan an excuse to flush out and exterminate all who oppose him. Anyone want to take bets how long until NATO will revoke Turkey's membership?

Unfortunately, the people of Turkey were going to be screwed no matter how the coup went. If it had succeeded, they would have got a military dictatorship. Now they get a different kind of dictatorship instead. Erdogan was slowly evolving into a dictator before the coup, and now he's accelerating that process. I wonder if the best outcome for democracy in Turkey would have been a attempted coup which resulted in Erdo…

> If it had succeeded, they would have got a military dictatorship

That's usually not how these things go in Turkey. In 1997, there was a non-violent military coup because of a situation very similar to what we've seen with Erdogan. A few months later, I spent the summer in Istanbul, drinking beer, discussing any and all politics with Turks, and chasing Turkish girls in a decidedly open and free environment. Most Turks I spoke to (admittedly tended to be secular) were quite glad that the coup had taken place and that the Islamist Party (Refah, or "Welfare" Party) was subsequently banned.

Incidentally, at the time the Refah party was banned, Erdogan was an active, up-and-coming party member.

In any case, few of the military coups that have occurred in modern Turkish history have been violent (1980 was significant exception) and none have resulted in a long-term dictatorship (1980 resulted in a 3-year military dictatorship).

Ironically, since 1980, it has been democracy, not military intervention, that has now permitted a dictatorship to gain a foothold in Turkey.

Re: Turkish government revokes ham radio licenses

#79

Post by Zak »

onetwotree wrote: post #67
dragonwriter wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anyone want to take bets how long until NATO will revoke Turkey's membership? Well, Erdogan's regime is threatening to end its friendship with the US if Gülen isn't turned over, so any termination of the relationship may not come from the NATO side.

That's when we'll know he's really gone off the rails. I think I read that Kerry had said something like "sure, we'll extradite him...if you have evidence that he committed any crimes." Since any evidence they do have is likely to be pretty weak, this seems like a classic "remember that USA is the boss of you" move. A reasonable Turkish leader wouldn't call that bluff, but Ergodan seems to be slipping deeper and deep…

this seems like a classic "remember that USA is the boss of you" move

I skimmed the treaty. It does appear that evidence that the person sought has committed a crime is a requirement for an extradition request, in which case Kerry is merely saying "we're not going to exceed our legal authority just because you asked us to". It is also a requirement, at least in most circumstances that the evidence be for a crime that is punishable by detention for more than one year (i.e. a felony) in both countries.

Re: Turkish government revokes ham radio licenses

#80

Post by peterwwillis »

crb002 wrote: post #74

I think it's time for the U.S. to erect an Armenian Genocide monument in D.C. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide

The U.S. still doesn't even recognize it officially as being genocide, so, no, it's probably not time yet.

We're pretty much deaf, dumb and blind when it comes to genocide. We generally allow governments to kill their own people, and often other people, as long as they're brown. When they're white, we draw the line at them killing other people. Sometimes.

https://clg.portalxm.com/library/keytext.cfm?keytext_id=52

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/ghosts/themes/...

https://www.ushmm.org/confront-genocide/speakers-and-events/...

http://www.internationaljusticeproject.com/american-response...

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2001/09/bystande...

http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/insidestoryamericas/2012...

http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/27/opinion/congo-war-ignored-vava...

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