Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Inside the Obama Tech Surge as It Hacks the Pentagon and VA

backchannel.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 148 posts

Re: Inside the Obama Tech Surge as It Hacks the Pentagon and VA

#91

Post by maxxxxx »

liyanchang wrote: post #75
maxxxxx wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"gives them the resources and authority they require to turns things around" They probably could have given the same resources and authority to the existing staff and they might have turned things around too. It really annoys me that in so many cases the existing guys know what's wrong but are not allowed by management to do anything about it. Then management hires new people, gives them authority, and suddenly these…

Disclosure: I'm an engineer at USDS and these are my own opinions. We are very proud to be working along side the existing agency and contracting staff. You are right that many times, they do know how to fix it and need some help from us getting management to let them do it. Some times they are skeptical, sometimes there is friction - that's all completely understandable. Ultimately, my time in government has opened…

I didn't mean to offend you at all. USDS is great. I just see this dismissive attitude of existing staff by management. But in reality it's management that messed things up, not staff.

Re: Inside the Obama Tech Surge as It Hacks the Pentagon and VA

#92

Post by stupidcar »

the_watcher wrote: post #66
liyanchang wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclosure: I'm an engineer at USDS and these are my own opinions. So in my admittedly short time in the government [0], I've witnessed how all of these problems are due to good intentions. That's what makes this all really tough because everything you think is bonkers actually has a reason. The 1400 page travel regulations is a result of trying to prevent fraud - every single issue that comes up results in a new rul…

> every single issue that comes up results in a new rule. This sentence is the simplest explanation for government (and bureaucratic) incompetence. Think about writing software. Is the optimal solution to every single bug to write more code to deal with that specific situation? Of course not. In many cases, sorting out the underlying cause and fixing that (which may involve new code, rewriting old code, or even delet…

You demonstrate intellectual fallacies common amongst software developers:

1. Believing that your experience in one particular field makes you qualified to make pronouncements regarding others about which you know nothing.

2. Believing that problems in other fields are inherently simple to understand and solve, and that the reason they aren't must therefore be due to the malice or incompetence of people working in those fields.

3. Believing that software and software development processes are a universal model that can be applied to any other problem via trite and reductive analogy.

Re: Inside the Obama Tech Surge as It Hacks the Pentagon and VA

#93

Post by el_benhameen »

dastbe wrote: post #36
DannyBee wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The 1400 page travel regulations is a result of trying to prevent fraud - every single issue that comes up results in a new rule." This seems like a serious inability to understand that no process designed to prevent future things you can't forsee is 100% effective (by definition). At some point, you have to declare "good enough", and live with it until the error rate becomes unacceptable overall again, then modify…

Unfortunately there are a lot of people who believe government shouldn't do anything unless it is fraud-proof. The narratives around welfare and food stamp abuse make headlines for exactly this reason :(.

I think their intentions are a little more nefarious. It's not that they want e.g. a fraud-free welfare system; they fundamentally disagree with the idea of welfare and so use fraud, whether it's a legitimate issue or not, as a basis for trying to stymie or dismantle the institution.

Re: Inside the Obama Tech Surge as It Hacks the Pentagon and VA

#94

Post by jessriedel »

dkrich wrote: post #86

Unfortunately, there's quite a bit of misinformation in this article. The author makes it sound as simple as hiring fresh hackers from Silicon Valley to take over failed projects from stodgy software developers from the large D.C. contracting firms. Having worked on government projects like those cited in this article for several years, I can tell you that it is the government agencies themselves, and not so much the…

So it's an accident that this involved fresh hackers from Silicon Valley?

Re: Inside the Obama Tech Surge as It Hacks the Pentagon and VA

#95

Post by mattmcknight »

vidarh wrote: post #72
DannyBee wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The 1400 page travel regulations is a result of trying to prevent fraud - every single issue that comes up results in a new rule." This seems like a serious inability to understand that no process designed to prevent future things you can't forsee is 100% effective (by definition). At some point, you have to declare "good enough", and live with it until the error rate becomes unacceptable overall again, then modify…

A common approach is to set a fixed amount per day for expenses based on cost levels in the country in question, and be extremely strict with extras, coupled with approved supplier lists and price ranges for the actual travel. It "rewards" those who are prudent with extra cash, and so it certainly won't be perfectly efficient, but in return it makes it harder for those who would otherwise try to abuse the system who…

Amazingly, the government does that already! http://www.gsa.gov/portal/content/104877

Still they create mountains of rules....

Re: Inside the Obama Tech Surge as It Hacks the Pentagon and VA

#96

Post by mattmcknight »

liyanchang wrote: post #57
impostervt wrote: post #22

"U.S. Digital Service salaries are set in accordance with the General Schedule Pay Scale, which is capped at $160,300." That's not bad, but not great for really high talent employees. I wonder how many people get that rate though. https://www.usds.gov/join#compensation

Disclosure: I'm an engineer at USDS and these are my own opinions. That's right. The US Government is probably not going to win on compensation - salary limits, no stock options, no lunch. However, while it's not a money making enterprise, it's enough to do just fine. I recognize the sacrifices that many of my colleagues have made to be here, not to mention the sacrifices that federal employees and contractors have m…

The government could do a lot more by adjusting the differentials for technical competence on the GS scale to be somewhere near market (up and down). However, assessing technical competence isn't exactly straightforward.

Re: Inside the Obama Tech Surge as It Hacks the Pentagon and VA

#97

Post by mbesto »

My favorite part of this whole situation:

"Start Up Life Meets the Compliance Riddled Federal IT Market for 18F and USDS" by A.R. "Trey" Hodgkins (ITI)

https://www.itic.org/news-events/techwonk-blog/start-up-life...

18F’s and USDS’s heavy reliance on open source and custom coding raises serious concerns. While open source is an entirely appropriate option for agencies to consider when looking to acquire software solutions for mission needs, we need to ensure that these are not the only options available as different missions have different demands. Making open source software the only preferred solution doesn’t adhere to the tenets of tech neutrality. It also limits options and competition, which means we may not be achieving best value for the taxpayer.

Re: Inside the Obama Tech Surge as It Hacks the Pentagon and VA

#98

Post by fapjacks »

liyanchang wrote: post #13
cs702 wrote: post #7

The federal government hires a team of young, talented, motivated engineers and managers, puts them in charge of failed software projects, gives them the resources and authority they require to turns things around, and -- surprise! -- it turns out they do a GREAT job. In hindsight, this shouldn't be too surprising. What might be surprising is that the same logic should apply to ALL government functions, not just soft…

Disclosure: I'm an engineer at USDS and these are my own opinions. So in my admittedly short time in the government [0], I've witnessed how all of these problems are due to good intentions. That's what makes this all really tough because everything you think is bonkers actually has a reason. The 1400 page travel regulations is a result of trying to prevent fraud - every single issue that comes up results in a new rul…

I want to work there so bad. USDS or 18F. But I can't get anyone to call me back, even with twenty years working in (and running) startups. Dunno what that's about.

Re: Inside the Obama Tech Surge as It Hacks the Pentagon and VA

#99

Post by dave_sullivan »

stupidcar wrote: post #92
the_watcher wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> every single issue that comes up results in a new rule. This sentence is the simplest explanation for government (and bureaucratic) incompetence. Think about writing software. Is the optimal solution to every single bug to write more code to deal with that specific situation? Of course not. In many cases, sorting out the underlying cause and fixing that (which may involve new code, rewriting old code, or even delet…

You demonstrate intellectual fallacies common amongst software developers: 1. Believing that your experience in one particular field makes you qualified to make pronouncements regarding others about which you know nothing. 2. Believing that problems in other fields are inherently simple to understand and solve, and that the reason they aren't must therefore be due to the malice or incompetence of people working in th…

Yet the information density of the parent comment is so much higher. You have 3 statements that can be reduced to "Things that work in programming don't necessarily work in other fields." No kidding? Then what's your solution for operational efficiency in government?

Re: Inside the Obama Tech Surge as It Hacks the Pentagon and VA

#100

Post by liyanchang »

maxxxxx wrote: post #91
liyanchang wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclosure: I'm an engineer at USDS and these are my own opinions. We are very proud to be working along side the existing agency and contracting staff. You are right that many times, they do know how to fix it and need some help from us getting management to let them do it. Some times they are skeptical, sometimes there is friction - that's all completely understandable. Ultimately, my time in government has opened…

I didn't mean to offend you at all. USDS is great. I just see this dismissive attitude of existing staff by management. But in reality it's management that messed things up, not staff.

Thanks. I appreciate that. I think you actually have a keen eye for the issues.

Since my time in government, I've become more sympathetic to agency employees, contractors, management - pretty much everyone. The entire environment is really challenging to do the right thing.

As an executive, the typical tools you have at your disposal, budget and HR, are circumscribed by congressional appropriations and federal hiring guidelines. Your ability to promote and demote and reorganize are limited by laws and unions and you definitely can't grant stock options. The metrics that you typically use to measure success are much fuzzier because there isn't a PNL but it's really easy for the press to find a single case where your org does a poor job.

I still maintain hope that good things can be done - I have seen it - and good management makes a huge difference.

Disclosure: I'm an engineer at USDS and these are my own opinions.

Post reply on HN