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Inside the Obama Tech Surge as It Hacks the Pentagon and VA

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Re: Inside the Obama Tech Surge as It Hacks the Pentagon and VA

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>...young... This the first and presumably most important requirement in you opinion? Interesting. May I ask, how did you extrpolate it was a property of the team at all let alone responsible for its success let alone the first component of that success?

As an old guy, I have other committments besides work. Family, non-profits, etc. It's helpful not to have to worry about those things as well as moving across the country for a lot less pay in a job that might not succeed.

But flexibility, adventurousness, low pay were not listed in the parent post, just age.

Indeed, you can easily insert any idea not actually mentioned post hoc. It's especially easy to insert unsupported but widely believed justifications. For that matter, you could extrapolate that dietary habits or music taste somehow result in less time eating and more team unity if you're absolutely set on justifying a weak assumption or policy.

But particularly one would think the fact they they are not all actually young would be somehow taken into account before justifying they claim that it's the premier attribute to enumerate.

Re: Inside the Obama Tech Surge as It Hacks the Pentagon and VA

#62

What I would love to see is an 18F-like organization that creates open source software that helps user-facing government organizations at the state and local level. All of these things should be simple but (typically) are not: * Paying a utility bill online * Registering to vote * Finding out how to get from place to place using public transportation * Paying for public transportation passes * Signing up for unemploy…

Granted this is one anecdote, but in my experience state and local governments in North Texas are generally much easier to deal with than the federal government. Some are better than others, but I haven't run into any yet that are really bad. Some, like the Dallas Police Department and Dallas Area Rapid Transit, even have mobile apps to facilitate activities that are often done from a phone but awkward to do via the web.

Re: Inside the Obama Tech Surge as It Hacks the Pentagon and VA

#63

I'm curious if anyone here from USDS or 18F has deployed Postgres in a FIPS 140-2 environment, and if so what challenges they had. The VA seems to be saying that Postgres should not be used: http://www.va.gov/TRM/ToolPage.asp?tid=5692&tab=2 contrast that with Oracle: http://www.va.gov/TRM/ToolPage.asp?tid=9&tab=2 (Don't miss the difference in tone on the "Analysis" tabs.) I'm sure some of that is due to lobbyists, bu…

Hi! Engineer at USDS here.

There's definitely quite a bit of PostgreSQL in use in government, so this does not need to be a blocker. As someone noted, PAM auth is a good solution; and I think if you use CentOS or RHEL (Use the latest release please!) you'll end up with a FIPS OpenSSL which PostgreSQL is linked against.

More generally, the VA TRM is not a permanent thing, it's precisely the type of existing process which can be improved with the feedback of on the ground software engineers. If this is a blocker for you, I'm sure folks at DSVA would be happy to help!

Re: Inside the Obama Tech Surge as It Hacks the Pentagon and VA

#64
post #7

The federal government hires a team of young, talented, motivated engineers and managers, puts them in charge of failed software projects, gives them the resources and authority they require to turns things around, and -- surprise! -- it turns out they do a GREAT job. In hindsight, this shouldn't be too surprising. What might be surprising is that the same logic should apply to ALL government functions, not just soft…

>...young... This the first and presumably most important requirement in you opinion? Interesting. May I ask, how did you extrpolate it was a property of the team at all let alone responsible for its success let alone the first component of that success?

Disclosure: I'm an engineer at USDS and these are my own opinions.

We hire for experience, which comes in all sorts of shapes and sizes. Based on my personal observations, the team is actually the most diverse team I've ever worked on by a number of dimensions. We've pulled folks from retirement, others who are chronologically younger but have been contributing to Python and Debian for years, those who have uprooted their family. The job is an incredible mix - it requires being able to debug a slow performing database index one moment, briefing a deputy secretary the next, all while empowering the other federal employees and contractors to do great things.

I would be remiss not to take this opportunity to link to our hiring page. https://www.usds.gov/join

I do recognize that there are lots of talented folks that aren't able to move to DC or can't make it work for a variety of reasons. That's okay. There are many other ways to contribute to our country [0] - working for state/local government, volunteering in your community, being a good parent, inventing the next breakthrough, actually using your turn signals, and many more.

[0] Yes I recognize that not everyone here is US based. Though the point actually is probably true for all countries.

Re: Inside the Obama Tech Surge as It Hacks the Pentagon and VA

#65
A note on personal experience as a tech contractor at a federal agency: I worked as a contractor at the US Geological Survey (USGS), in the Department of the Interior each summer between 2006 and 2010.

The most useful thing I worked on was a program for calculating air-sea carbon flux: I did the OS X GUI and helped with the core logic (computing air-sea carbon flux is nontrivial). At the time I was appalled that we spent $10k on what could have just been an R package around a wrapper for the C++ core. But since then the program has become a very common tool for ocean acidification research, with ~175 citations, many of these have since been cited in all sorts of climate change policy documents. It's admittedly hard to assess value, but it's definitely more than 10k. And definitely a public good that the market cannot be counted on to deliver.

I also found out at some point that the contractor I was working for (a Fortune 500 engineering and defense company) billed the USGS more than twice what I received (I got no real benefits). The federal employees I worked with detested the contracting company because they knew how much it was skimming from the contract employees, many of whom were full-time and had been there for years. When I figured this all out, I quit, started my own company, and was hired directly as an independent contractor. Unfortunately, this was not an option for most people, as this wouldn't have worked for a full-time, year-round position.

Re: Inside the Obama Tech Surge as It Hacks the Pentagon and VA

#66
post #7

The federal government hires a team of young, talented, motivated engineers and managers, puts them in charge of failed software projects, gives them the resources and authority they require to turns things around, and -- surprise! -- it turns out they do a GREAT job. In hindsight, this shouldn't be too surprising. What might be surprising is that the same logic should apply to ALL government functions, not just soft…

Disclosure: I'm an engineer at USDS and these are my own opinions. So in my admittedly short time in the government [0], I've witnessed how all of these problems are due to good intentions. That's what makes this all really tough because everything you think is bonkers actually has a reason. The 1400 page travel regulations is a result of trying to prevent fraud - every single issue that comes up results in a new rul…

> every single issue that comes up results in a new rule.

This sentence is the simplest explanation for government (and bureaucratic) incompetence.

Think about writing software. Is the optimal solution to every single bug to write more code to deal with that specific situation? Of course not. In many cases, sorting out the underlying cause and fixing that (which may involve new code, rewriting old code, or even deleting outdated code) is the correct approach (assuming that the optimal solution is the desired outcome, there are of course cases where speed of getting something out that works trumps this, but government regulations only take effect once annually in most cases anyway, so they don't have a speed excuse).

Simply writing a new rule to deal with every scenario is an approach that inevitably leads here.

Re: Inside the Obama Tech Surge as It Hacks the Pentagon and VA

#67

What I would love to see is an 18F-like organization that creates open source software that helps user-facing government organizations at the state and local level. All of these things should be simple but (typically) are not: * Paying a utility bill online * Registering to vote * Finding out how to get from place to place using public transportation * Paying for public transportation passes * Signing up for unemploy…

Disclosure: I'm an engineer at USDS and these are my own opinions.

I absolutely agree that the interface that most citizens use to government can be better. President Obama agrees with you (from his sxsw remarks):

"I could change the politics of America faster than just about anything if I could just take control of all the DMVs in the country."

"If their primary interaction with government is the IRS, you just don’t have a good association with government when you’re writing that check."

USDS has been working with the IRS to help them get their Transcript service back online with better identity proofing though admittedly just a small step in a better online experience. (irs.gov/transcript)

A number of state and local governments have been making improvements as well (much harder to see if your state or your local government has not been). I'd encourage you to search them out or even start it.

Re: Inside the Obama Tech Surge as It Hacks the Pentagon and VA

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does anyone else find it extremely discomforting that the voting machines even have a full fledged OS? It's a throwback to this xkcd https://xkcd.com/463/ In my mind, the ideal electronic voting machine: - Has mechanical buttons which simultaneously punch a paper ballot in a manner observable to the voter - Runs on a small (open source) microcontroller that's been audited for backdoors. - Runs (open source) crypto di…

In terms of security, that is probably exactly correct (I'm a complete security novice FWIW). Way too high of an attack surface area. That being said, as soon as you get into microcontroller territory, you turn it into a niche thing that makes it inaccessible to most. What are the chances of finding talent that can write user-facing code that runs bug free on microcontrollers while simultaneously writing/proving the…

Why does dropping the OS mean you have to run on microcontrollers and write everything from scratch? All it means is your software needs to incorporate the OS functions that it needs for interacting with the hardware. You can still use any hardware platform you want and any third-party libraries available for said platform.

Re: Inside the Obama Tech Surge as It Hacks the Pentagon and VA

#69
post #7

The federal government hires a team of young, talented, motivated engineers and managers, puts them in charge of failed software projects, gives them the resources and authority they require to turns things around, and -- surprise! -- it turns out they do a GREAT job. In hindsight, this shouldn't be too surprising. What might be surprising is that the same logic should apply to ALL government functions, not just soft…

"gives them the resources and authority they require to turns things around"

They probably could have given the same resources and authority to the existing staff and they might have turned things around too. It really annoys me that in so many cases the existing guys know what's wrong but are not allowed by management to do anything about it. Then management hires new people, gives them authority, and suddenly these guys are heroes and the existing people look like idiots.

There seems to be this tendency to think that existent workers are all idiots and the only way to do better is to hire new people (preferably young and from ivy league schools). In reality it's a leadership problem because they have set up dysfunctional environments that don't allow people to perform.

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