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Why I won’t give talks about being a woman in tech

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Re: Why I won’t give talks about being a woman in tech

#21

Diversity in tech will never work. You are going against reality if you think everyone has the same aptitude to be good at math/engineering. Look at the data below. SAT Math by race [1] : - Asian/Pacific Islander = 598 - White = 534 - Mexican American = 461 - Black = 429 SAT Math by gender [2] : - Men = 537 - Women = 503 [1] https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=171 [2] http://www.fairtest.org/sat-race-gender-…

This is sleight of hand. Even supposing all that "data" to be accurate, you assume your conclusion by acting as if you know what the reason for it is. But, as we all know, nothing is more highly disputed.

This is not the way to an open-minded and open-hearted discussion about the truth; it's a tangent to yet another generic ideological flamewar. That violates the HN guidelines.

Since you've done this repeatedly before and don't appear to have any other purpose in commenting here, we've banned your account. Please stop creating new accounts to break the HN guidelines with.

Re: Why I won’t give talks about being a woman in tech

#22

Diversity in tech will never work. You are going against reality if you think everyone has the same aptitude to be good at math/engineering. Look at the data below. SAT Math by race [1] : - Asian/Pacific Islander = 598 - White = 534 - Mexican American = 461 - Black = 429 SAT Math by gender [2] : - Men = 537 - Women = 503 [1] https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=171 [2] http://www.fairtest.org/sat-race-gender-…

Why do you think these numbers are fixed? They can change, if there exists competency and a desire to learn.

You are also ignoring the effects of changing environment which those numbers disregard. For example, we know blacks disproportionately come from low income backgrounds with higher crime and a "rough" home life, which can affect a childs ability to effectively study and learn. That's not because they're genetically black as you allude, that's because they grew up in that environment. Your data does not capture or ignores this crucial variable and you should stop pushing it.

Re: Why I won’t give talks about being a woman in tech

#23
I personally know several successful professional women who have a policy of refusing to belong to any women-only groups. Their reason is that in their experience such groups are populated by people seeking reassurance. The result is that they offer the "support" of lowered expectations. Which won't help you succeed.

One also pointed out to me that if a group of men were to form a men's only business club, that would be seen as sexist. It is no less sexist to form a women's only club, but nobody sees fit to criticize it.

This is not a bias against women in general. They just refuse to deal with people whose identify first as women, and only secondarily as professionals.

Re: Why I won’t give talks about being a woman in tech

#24
post #11
post #7

This is very refreshing. Diversity is a key to strength but seeing a woman present tech stuff is my preference at a tech conference. I was at a conference recently and I heard a neckbeard, seeing a woman warming up for the presentation we just sat down for, say something dismissive about another diversity talk. He actually left without sitting down. His loss. The talk was pure tech gold. As the OP says, the diversity…

>I heard a neckbeard, seeing a woman warming up for the presentation we just sat down for, say something dismissive about another diversity talk It's really hard to take your criticism of a sexist dismissal seriously when you preface it with a sexist dismissal.

I took both sexist dismissals and your anti-sexist dismissal of OP seriously.

Re: Why I won’t give talks about being a woman in tech

#25

Diversity in tech will never work. You are going against reality if you think everyone has the same aptitude to be good at math/engineering. Look at the data below. SAT Math by race [1] : - Asian/Pacific Islander = 598 - White = 534 - Mexican American = 461 - Black = 429 SAT Math by gender [2] : - Men = 537 - Women = 503 [1] https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=171 [2] http://www.fairtest.org/sat-race-gender-…

I would say at the moment there's still a feedback loop. Little girls somehow learn that they're expected to be not as good at math, and maybe they try less hard and give up more easily. Not to mention socio-economic backgrounds when you bring race into it.

What you are describing is stereotype threat. High-quality evidence for it is scarce to none; a recent meta-analysis: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022440514....

Re: Why I won’t give talks about being a woman in tech

#26

Diversity in tech will never work. You are going against reality if you think everyone has the same aptitude to be good at math/engineering. Look at the data below. SAT Math by race [1] : - Asian/Pacific Islander = 598 - White = 534 - Mexican American = 461 - Black = 429 SAT Math by gender [2] : - Men = 537 - Women = 503 [1] https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=171 [2] http://www.fairtest.org/sat-race-gender-…

These numbers tell you where the bump is in the bell curve, but tell you nothing about who's out on the long tail. Learn to treat people as individuals, not statistics.

This list also says nothing about cause/effect. Do the scores represent innate aptitude, or rather the result of a lifetime of societal biases?

Re: Why I won’t give talks about being a woman in tech

#27
Very nicely worded sentiments and I think it's a good counter-point, a rational and thought out one, to the knee-jerk habit of having a trend-chasing, "WE CARE!" framing around certain issues. This piece is strong in pointing out that "ISSUE X IN TECH" is not particularly a "tech talk" - it's more in the sociology/humanity side of discussion, right? I like how this tries to make that distinction.

On a personal note, I think I appreciate the article a bit more because I could substitute "handicapped person with condition X" for the same kind of framing that she's discussing. I don't want to be known as X, I want to focus on the subject matter. If I happen to be an inspiration for others in the X group, super, great, blaze a trail and thank me later if you really feel compelled, but that's not the purpose of me pursuing success. It's not "in spite of X" it's just that X is another inconvenience in the way of goals, much like having to pay taxes or empty my cat's litter box, scope and effort aside.

Re: Why I won’t give talks about being a woman in tech

#28
Personal story time...I was at a recent conference, listening to men, women given talks. One of the women, in her talk, uses an interaction with her daughter as the framing narrative for the talk (imagine Socrates and Glaucon, only this woman and her daughter). Almost immediately, three guys to my right start making fun of the speaker, sotto voce, making all manner of little jokes to themselves, that are becoming increasingly gender-specific.

When one of them says loudly enough for me and others to hear, "Your daughter sounds like a real bitch! hur hur", I turned to them and said, "You guys need to knock this off now."

Embarrassed silence. And it stayed that way. Of course, I'm a tall well-built, well-dressed white guy, i.e. all the things that automatically command respect.

The thing is, I don't think those guys were bad people, I don't think they sat there in their minds thinking, "let's tear the woman down". I really don't think they thought about it at all. I also don't think they'd have sat there, chattering away, if a man had used the same framing story (father and son, father and daughter).

I think there's a lot of unconscious, unconsidered, unthoughtful bias that they (and we) all carry around by default, that makes it easy to pick on weaker people if you're going to pick on anyone. And there are a lot fewer women around these tech conferences, and they're used to placating aggressive people, putting up with shit, etc.

I guess, I wish women didn't have to talk about being a woman in tech. I hope they keep doing it, though, until people start thinking about this kind of asinine behavior.

Re: Why I won’t give talks about being a woman in tech

#30
post #19

Diversity in tech will never work. You are going against reality if you think everyone has the same aptitude to be good at math/engineering. Look at the data below. SAT Math by race [1] : - Asian/Pacific Islander = 598 - White = 534 - Mexican American = 461 - Black = 429 SAT Math by gender [2] : - Men = 537 - Women = 503 [1] https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=171 [2] http://www.fairtest.org/sat-race-gender-…

Wow the bigotry. What is wrong with you? These tests are created and scored by privileged white people.

Please don't respond to a bad comment by violating the HN guidelines yourself. That just makes this place worse.
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