Licenses of 21,000 Turkish teachers have been revoked • Hacker News Board

Re: Licenses of 21,000 Turkish teachers have been revoked

#121

Post by PopsiclePete » Tue, Jul 19, 2016, 5:50 PM UTC

colejohnson66 wrote: post #99

wheaties wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Educated people ask questions. He doesn't want an educated populace.

While that is true, look at North Korea. Everyone is taught from birth that their Gloious Leader is, in a sense, God. However, people who've escaped have said that when they got old enough to actually think for themselves, they figured out it was a lie but couldn't do anything. http://www.craveonline.com/design/869309-north-korean-defect... > Well, it's hard to say. Yes and no. Because if you're talking about nowaday…

I grew up in Eastern Europe in the 80's. No internet, but it was still impossible to stop the flow of information, even a little bit, that the West wasn't this horrible, terrifying place. People are not stupid, but they know when to shut up.

Re: Licenses of 21,000 Turkish teachers have been revoked

#122

Post by darkhorn » Tue, Jul 19, 2016, 6:04 PM UTC

yeukhon wrote: post #91

JohnStrange wrote: post #22

The coup was a last chance effort. Now Turkey has become a totalitarian dictatorship, there is no doubt about that. To be more precise, it already lost its status as democracy years ago when Erdogan had hundreds of prosecutors and policemen fired who dared to investigate corruption within his family. But with the latest purges you've got to wonder where they want to get the replacements from. Any sane person will pro…

Well, then why didn't Turkish people join the coup? The coup lost all of its momentum when people started marching on the street. Perhaps next time they should consider assassination over a military take-over when all of the top military officials have been replaced by the President several years ago. Look at Syria. The civil war is still on-going. This is not Thailand. There is no King / Emperor to bless.

It is thought that the coup was planned for few or several weeks later. They learn that the prosecuter is close to the end. Coup members immediatly come to their work, leaving their holiday or annual leaves. They start to prepare for the coup. At 15:00 or 16:00 central inntelligence learns that something is going on due to a leaker. At 18:00 military meeting and intelligance agree to close the airspace. At 21:00 or 22:00 coup starts beacause they are known. The actual plan was for 3:00 or 4:00 in the morning. And you know the rest, FaceTime, insider (pro-government) military members, starting too early due to a leak etc made it uncessfull coup.

The coup members execute the constitional military idioligy/law of the Turkish military, that is to prevent both ousider and insider enemies. Here insiders are islamic nuts. Take control, establish Ataturk's 6 (iirc) main points; united republic, secularism, Turkish state, etc. Then they leave. Thece principle are almost same as modern western priciples in ethnic countries like Spain or France, but not like Switzerland or UK.

Sadly Turkey is not only geographically between Europe and Middle East but also idiologically. Ataturk was from Europe. AKP supporters are from eastern parts of the country.

http://theataturksocietyofcanada.ca/mka/revolutions/ataturks...

Re: Licenses of 21,000 Turkish teachers have been revoked

#123

Post by zymhan » Tue, Jul 19, 2016, 6:07 PM UTC

AndyNemmity wrote: post #97

tim333 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Erdogan gives his version to CNN: http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/18/europe/turkey-president-er...

""Starting from the moment we landed, F-16s started flying above us, very close to the ground," Erdogan said." The F-16s had him locked in, and never fired. Which was odd. It all doesn't really make a ton of sense, but it's possible.

It would be pretty unprecedented for the coup members to shoot down the sitting president's plane. They would almost certainly just prevent him from landing, or allow him to land and arrest him immediately.

Re: Licenses of 21,000 Turkish teachers have been revoked

#124

Post by zymhan » Tue, Jul 19, 2016, 6:08 PM UTC

random28345 wrote: post #44

mcbits wrote: post #9

It's starting to seem like they had these lists made up ahead of time and have been waiting for the right time to start cleansing the ranks.

> It's starting to seem like they had these lists made up ahead of time and have been waiting for the right time to start cleansing the ranks. Kind of how the 342-page US Patriot Act was introduced days after the September 11th terrorist attacks?

Aside from what the others said, the PATRIOT ACT (it's all an acronym) was based on an older bill that was not passed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnibus_Counterterrorism_Act_o...

http://www.wnyc.org/story/whats-bill/

Re: Licenses of 21,000 Turkish teachers have been revoked

#125

Post by JohnStrange » Tue, Jul 19, 2016, 6:34 PM UTC

hx87 wrote: post #68

ilostmykeys wrote: post #46

Obama and Hillary made a huge error in judgment by siding with a fascist. It's amazing how we haven't gotten ourselves in deep sh!t already given how badly our leaders judge situations. But maybe we have, and we just don't know it yet.

Yes, how dare they not support a coup against a democratically elected government!

Adolf Hitler was also democratically elected. Just sayin' ...

Re: Licenses of 21,000 Turkish teachers have been revoked

#126

Post by Bartweiss » Tue, Jul 19, 2016, 6:48 PM UTC

imartin2k wrote: post #118

Bartweiss wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I question whether Erdogan was ever seriously pursuing membership. He probably would have taken it, on good enough terms, but I don't think it was a goal. Too poorly aligned with his religious, autocratic tendencies. The narrative that makes more sense to me is that Erdogan used membership talks to maintain a moderate reputation, creating a retort to both domestic and international critics. It weakened the position o…

Your theory is shockingly convincing. However, it would require Erdogan to be quite an intelligent, long-term thinking person. Which, in my eyes, has to be questioned considering how he is so emotional and short-tempered that he picks any tiny, meaningless war he can get, even if it means suing teenagers who "offend" him. That's what, based on my limited understanding, is what distinguishes him from Putin. Putin is i…

That's a really good question.

Erdogan confuses me for the same reasons as Trump - he's a petty, immature strongman who has no sense of proportion, but somehow he makes enough clever moves to advance his position. I'm not sure if they're political savants, depending on good advisers, or just lucky and grabbing hold of domestic anger.

Erdogan seems to be a joke of despot compared to the likes of Putin or even Assad, and "he's not competent" is probably the best counterargument to any claim of a big, long-term plan. I just wish I understood how he managed to get this far without the abilities that dictatorship usually requires.

Re: Licenses of 21,000 Turkish teachers have been revoked

#127

Post by tim333 » Tue, Jul 19, 2016, 6:59 PM UTC

AndyNemmity wrote: post #86

jayess wrote: post #26

The whole thing seemed fishy that night. I was watching Erdogan's plane circle southwest of Istanbul for an hour or so on FlightRadar24. Then suddenly it lands where just a couple of hours earlier coup-controlled tanks were patrolling the runways. Huh? The "coup" had control of fighter jets that were buzzing Istanbul and Ankara (live on TV), yet they let his plane circle, for all to see, just minutes away?

Absolutely, I watched every bit of news as it happened, and the video channels. The military that were holding areas were told it was a drill. It was by far one of the worst coups from an organizational standpoint I've ever seen. That leaves you with either 1. A extremely poor, unfocused, and uncoordinated coup that had real intentions, but was rushed and ultimately had no chance of succeeding. 2. Erdogan knew a coup…

For what it's worth the official Turkish position is 4) "Military coup was well planned and very nearly succeeded, say Turkish officials" https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/18/military-coup-...

Re: Licenses of 21,000 Turkish teachers have been revoked

#128

Post by Chris2048 » Tue, Jul 19, 2016, 7:09 PM UTC

robotresearcher wrote: post #103

speeder wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe Brexit triggered this stuff. For example I saw some posts from turkish people on reddit, where they concluded that the few reaming Kemalists (there was a kemalist purge in 2011, with most of them replaced by Gulenists after some false accusations), would attempt a coup during EU-join talks, because they thought joining EU was a better deal than risking a coup. When Brexit happened, it became clear the EU wa…

> When Brexit happened, it became clear the EU was a pointless effort, That 'pointless effort' has a population larger than the United States and much of the highest standards of living and productivity on Earth. The daft vote by the least educated and deliberately, cynically manipulated and misled half of one country does not make or demonstrate the EU pointless. If the vote was held today it would not pass. It's po…

> The daft vote by the least educated and deliberately, cynically manipulated and misled half of one country

This kind of attitude towards that half is maybe part of the reason they voted that way, education level aside. Not everyone benefited from EU membership.

Re: Licenses of 21,000 Turkish teachers have been revoked

#129

Post by Chris2048 » Tue, Jul 19, 2016, 7:11 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #66

chinathrow wrote: post #30

Reactions like these makes you wonder if the coup attempt was staged.

Perhaps, though people are often too quick to conclude that crises are staged just because governments are prepared to quickly exploit a particular category of crises to push a pre-existing agenda with motivations only tangential to the crises, and ultimately the debate over whether the crisis was staged detracts attention from criticism of the response (especially when the crisis wasn't staged, and the claim that it…

On the other hand, given the Saudis involvement with terrorist activities were apparently covered up, maybe the 9/11 truthers are right to by cynical?

Re: Licenses of 21,000 Turkish teachers have been revoked

#130

Post by robotresearcher » Tue, Jul 19, 2016, 7:14 PM UTC

Chris2048 wrote: post #128

robotresearcher wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When Brexit happened, it became clear the EU was a pointless effort, That 'pointless effort' has a population larger than the United States and much of the highest standards of living and productivity on Earth. The daft vote by the least educated and deliberately, cynically manipulated and misled half of one country does not make or demonstrate the EU pointless. If the vote was held today it would not pass. It's po…

> The daft vote by the least educated and deliberately, cynically manipulated and misled half of one country This kind of attitude towards that half is maybe part of the reason they voted that way, education level aside. Not everyone benefited from EU membership.

> Not everyone benefited from EU membership.

How can you possibly know that?