Graal and Truffle could accelerate programming language design
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Re: Graal and Truffle could accelerate programming language design
#2I think another key part of the dream is IDE support. So maybe the dream is complete with: Graal + Truffle + Nitra[1].
[1] Nitra - https://github.com/JetBrains/Nitra
Re: Graal and Truffle could accelerate programming language design
#3There are a lot of weasel words for the other languages, but the comment about ruby is extremely interesting:
"For example, the TruffleJS engine which implements JavaScript is competitive with V8 in benchmarks. The RubyTruffle engine is faster than all other Ruby implementations by far. The TruffleC engine is roughly competitive with GCC."
Re: Graal and Truffle could accelerate programming language design
#4> Since the dawn of computing our industry has been engaged on a never ending quest to build the perfect language.
...unfortunately. I see PLs as mere material - sure, you can improve on them but at far more important is how we architect our systems (the PL-independent ways we create and organize our systems into interfaces and components) is where I see the software practitioners of today flailing - and no PL is going to save us there.
We need to have a better way to analyze systems on these architectural measures and a better way to train people to build better architectures, not more PLs.
Re: Graal and Truffle could accelerate programming language design
#5There are a lot of weasel words for the other languages, but the comment about ruby is extremely interesting: "For example, the TruffleJS engine which implements JavaScript is competitive with V8 in benchmarks. The RubyTruffle engine is faster than all other Ruby implementations by far. The TruffleC engine is roughly competitive with GCC."
> The TruffleC engine is roughly competitive with GCC
It is not surprising in sense Java is competitive to C/C++ as per many Java developers.
Re: Graal and Truffle could accelerate programming language design
#6Have there been any recent languages/environments that (have reasonably) succeeded but aren't completely open source? I feel a general resistance to building a dependency on something when you don't have complete access to it, but maybe that is just me.
Re: Graal and Truffle could accelerate programming language design
#7There are a lot of weasel words for the other languages, but the comment about ruby is extremely interesting: "For example, the TruffleJS engine which implements JavaScript is competitive with V8 in benchmarks. The RubyTruffle engine is faster than all other Ruby implementations by far. The TruffleC engine is roughly competitive with GCC."
Chris Seaton gave this talk recently about JRuby+Truffle and some specifics about how it optimises so well compared to other Ruby implementations.
Previous discussion
Re: Graal and Truffle could accelerate programming language design
#8I think another key part of the dream is IDE support. So maybe the dream is complete with: Graal + Truffle + Nitra[1]. [1] Nitra - https://github.com/JetBrains/Nitra
How does Nitra and MPS fit together? They both come from JetBrains and both describe themselves as "language workbenches"
Re: Graal and Truffle could accelerate programming language design
#9There are a lot of weasel words for the other languages, but the comment about ruby is extremely interesting: "For example, the TruffleJS engine which implements JavaScript is competitive with V8 in benchmarks. The RubyTruffle engine is faster than all other Ruby implementations by far. The TruffleC engine is roughly competitive with GCC."
> The TruffleC engine is roughly competitive with GCC It is not surprising in sense Java is competitive to C/C++ as per many Java developers.
I work with .NET, Java and C++ stacks.
In many use cases, C++ might win the benchmark game, but the end user will not notice any difference in human time.
The biggest issue is of course than one needs to learn how to optimize code, use the right algorithms and data structures in first place.
Re: Graal and Truffle could accelerate programming language design
#10There are a lot of weasel words for the other languages, but the comment about ruby is extremely interesting: "For example, the TruffleJS engine which implements JavaScript is competitive with V8 in benchmarks. The RubyTruffle engine is faster than all other Ruby implementations by far. The TruffleC engine is roughly competitive with GCC."
I believe those benchmarks are for throughput, though. JS VM startup times (including v8) are highly optimized, while Graal+Truffle run on the JVM which is more optimized for sustained speed.
JS VMs also tend to have multiple tiers for that reason - interpreter, baseline, and full JIT, etc. - while AFAIK the Graal+Truffle/JVM approach has just 2 (which is optimal for Java, but not for startup times of JavaScript and other dynamic languages).