Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Now I Fear Exploratory Interviewing While Employed

bipolarco.de

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 86 posts

Re: Now I Fear Exploratory Interviewing While Employed

#41

Post by omegaham »

jowiar wrote: post #30

Everyone owes it to themselves to test the market once a year. You don't have to take the offer, but the extent to which you consider yourself guilty for doing so is the extent to which your current employer is screwing you. If your current company is in trouble, they will only blink once or twice before kicking you aside.

> If your current company is in trouble, they will only blink once or twice before kicking you aside.

This right here. The company has no loyalty to you, so why should you have any loyalty to them?

I'm very happy where I am right now, but I know that I'm exactly one "pivot" away from getting the axe and having to move to Texas. If a better opportunity comes my way, I'm not going to lose sleep over quitting.

Re: Now I Fear Exploratory Interviewing While Employed

#42

Post by mikeash »

stavros wrote: post #7

I don't really understand this post. The author seems to be doing a lot of handwringing for no reason. Why not just tell the new company "I'm currently employed, so it is unlikely that I would leave my job, but I would be open to it for the right opportunity, if you're still interested"? That way, you both know where you stand, and you have a better negotiating position, since you don't need to take the new job.

Yep, you tell them up front, they'll probably say that they'd still like you to interview, and you take it from there. Then everything is out in the open and there are no hard feelings. If they do freak out on you, you know with absolute confidence that you did nothing wrong and it's entirely on them.

Not that this is the interviewee's fault in any way. But being open makes it simpler.

Re: Now I Fear Exploratory Interviewing While Employed

#43

Post by beachstartup »

badmadrad wrote: post #40

I have been in this situation before where I was flown out and the company low balled me on salary with 5% pay cut despite the cost of living be way higher. My time and energy was wasted. Trust me, companies do the same things all time to prospective employees. Even for a startup, flying someone out and putting them in a hotel for a night is the cost of doing business and the risk you take for finding the right candi…

if you didn't tell them how much you want to make, they're going to just guess. and it sounds like they guessed pretty well, if they came within 5% of what you currently make.

amateur hour advice like "never be the first one to name a price" is nonsense. just tell them what you want and see if there's a fit, or not. it's how business gets done 99% of the time.

Re: Now I Fear Exploratory Interviewing While Employed

#44

Post by jraines »

I guess I'll be one voice in the other direction -- I agree with the friend: if deep down you know you're just exploring, you should cut it off before the in-person if they are flying you out. Interviewing is stressful for the interviewers, too, and nobody wants to pay $400~ and spend a day of their time, too, for you to have a field trip to update your feel for the market.

Re: Now I Fear Exploratory Interviewing While Employed

#45

Post by badmadrad »

beachstartup wrote: post #43
badmadrad wrote: post #40

I have been in this situation before where I was flown out and the company low balled me on salary with 5% pay cut despite the cost of living be way higher. My time and energy was wasted. Trust me, companies do the same things all time to prospective employees. Even for a startup, flying someone out and putting them in a hotel for a night is the cost of doing business and the risk you take for finding the right candi…

if you didn't tell them how much you want to make, they're going to just guess. and it sounds like they guessed pretty well, if they came within 5% of what you currently make. amateur hour advice like "never be the first one to name a price" is nonsense. just tell them what you want and see if there's a fit, or not. it's how business gets done 99% of the time.

I did tell them what I make but I didn't tell them what would make me leave because it usually goes without saying... more money.

Re: Now I Fear Exploratory Interviewing While Employed

#46

Post by kelnos »

> Maybe I did nothing wrong and am over-analyzing it.

Yes, that's exactly it.

The recruiter was being a dick by making you feel guilty about declining over email. Even if the recruiter was correct and you should have called, that has no bearing on whether or not you should feel guilty about the process overall.

You went through the process, was presented with an offer, and after evaluating the offer against your current circumstances, decided it wasn't a better deal. That's how it's supposed to work.

I'd say keep on doing what you're doing. If you find that interviewing periodically is a good use of your time, do it.

Re: Now I Fear Exploratory Interviewing While Employed

#48

Post by Domenic_S »

tomreece wrote: post #21
chrisabrams wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I concur - it's like the author never even attempted to get a cost of living adjustment in the offer.

The offer was 20k more than my base salary already. Asking for even more seemed crazy to me. I have controversial opinions on how much money developers make already, probably stemming from my imposter syndrome. Asking for more money did not make me comfortable. If they had offered, I would have had to reconsider. I expected more of a conversation after I declined, but it didn't happen.

The path forward is usually not comfortable. Up to you whether or not it's worth it (sounds like it's not).

> I expected more of a conversation after I declined

Guessing the recruiter felt the same way. "A call would have been nice" was the chance to have more of a conversation! It's where they say "what went wrong?" and you say "it's all great but I did the math and I need another $15k (or whatever) for the move to make sense" and they say "if I can get you $10k will you accept today?" and this is called negotiation.

And don't kid yourself, it's all negotiating about money. I'd work waist-deep in cow feces programming a Facebook clone on an AS/400 with actively hostile coworkers if it paid $2 million/day. Let's be real, there's always a price. Maybe it's not realistic, but it's there.

For me, it's easier to negotiate conversationally. These are my roadblocks for taking the job, how do we solve them together? Let the recruiter get creative. In most negotiations you don't have the monopoly on solutions -- know your must-haves and collaborate with the other party. It doesn't have to be adversarial.

Re: Now I Fear Exploratory Interviewing While Employed

#49

Post by Hydraulix989 »

smm2000 wrote: post #31
tomreece wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The offer was 20k more than my base salary already. Asking for even more seemed crazy to me. I have controversial opinions on how much money developers make already, probably stemming from my imposter syndrome. Asking for more money did not make me comfortable. If they had offered, I would have had to reconsider. I expected more of a conversation after I declined, but it didn't happen.

Was new offer in Bay Area? For Bay Area $20k increase is inadequate if you currently live in Texas.

This. As someone currently entrenched in the Bay Area, my advice is to stay in Texas -- especially if you have dreams of owning a house someday.

Here, that prospect is nil unless you win the equity lottery at some startup, but gambling in serial with your career makes this REALLY hard to pull off.

A six-figure salary in the Bay Area dooms you to renting for the rest of your life, and the rental situation here, with its converted living room bedrooms, roommates, and closet-sized apartments, SUCKS.

The rent is so high here that it feels like you're living paycheck-to-paycheck on a $120k salary.

You'd be happiest staying in Texas.

Re: Now I Fear Exploratory Interviewing While Employed

#50

Post by callesgg »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #4

Funny: the recruiter was annoyed at his declination email - a phone call was apparently expected. But how does a company decline? "We do not see a fit at this time, but we'll keep your resume on file". Lol

The fact that other people are dicks, does not justify you being a dick.
Post reply on HN