My Venezuela Nightmare: A 30-Day Hunt for Food in a Starving Land • Hacker News Board

Re: My Venezuela Nightmare: A 30-Day Hunt for Food in a Starving Land

#41

Post by ChuckMcM » Mon, Jul 18, 2016, 5:05 PM UTC

ColinCochrane wrote: post #6

ChuckMcM wrote: post #2

I'm curious about the pictures of stores with "good selections at high prices". Is there split market like the former USSR where stores without price constraints are selling at higher prices but have a wider selection? One of the challenges there was that suppliers would divert their supplies to the "open price" stores because it made them more money, is that what is going on in Venezula?

One of the captions says: Store shelves that are well-stocked, like those in this bakery near Zerpa’s house, are typically full of non-essential items set at sky-high prices

Yes that is the caption but the picture shows a store with ample bread products, cereals, meat selections, canned vegetables, oils and other cooking supplies. When the discussion of the article is a "hunt for food" those things all seem like stuff you'd consider "prey".

My question is whether or not that store is accessible to everyone (as described by my father, in the USSR the 'diplomatic' stores were not open to regular citizens) and if the prices are extortionate or merely market priced.

The root of those questions are whether or not an actual economy could be bootstrapped underneath the current mess or if it is too late for that. It is a sad story either way.

Re: My Venezuela Nightmare: A 30-Day Hunt for Food in a Starving Land

#42

Post by seibelj » Mon, Jul 18, 2016, 5:05 PM UTC

pastProlog wrote: post #30

seibelj wrote: post #4

I highly recommend reading Life and Death in Shanghai by Nien Cheng [0]. It's a factual, first-hand account of the China's Cultural Revolution and what living in a communist / socialist society is really like from an educated person's perspective. My inlaws escaped Saigon when it fell and say the picture is very accurate. The socialist downfall of countries are all unique, but follow similar paths. I encourage people…

> The socialist downfall of countries are all unique, but follow similar paths The PRC just surpassed US GDP on some measures, whereas in the 1940s it was a western and Japanese occupied backwards basket case. Is that the downfall you mean? Or do you mean Russia, which couldn't win a war with the Japanese in 1905, never mind Germany a decade later? The New York Times columns of 1918 said Mr. Lenin's government would…

The China during the Cultural Revolution was not a success. Millions were murdered, people starved, and a terrible stain marks that period of China's long history.

It was the pro-capitalist reforms that turned China into the success it is today, and as China starts to falter with it's unmanageable debt and unproductive, government-directed parts of the economy, the reforms will inevitably be capitalist, pro-market solutions that remove the state and promote competition.

So yes, some economies can succeed despite their socialist, government-controlled economic policies, but when things start to fail, solutions all point to the markets.

Re: My Venezuela Nightmare: A 30-Day Hunt for Food in a Starving Land

#43

Post by JPKab » Mon, Jul 18, 2016, 5:05 PM UTC

zeveb wrote: post #21

lightlyused wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lack of a functional democracy is the problem, not socialism.

> Lack of a functional democracy is the problem, not socialism. It's entirely possible to democratically decide to steal the means of production from the capitalists — and thus experience exactly these consequences.

Nobody is saying socialism is inherently bad here. The Nordic model, for instance, still has a free market means of production. Socialist safety nets are fine.

Venezuela has for years had a full-on centrally planned economy with the state setting the prices for goods independent of their costs of production, all as a tool to continue winning electoral support from the poor. That is a very, very nasty aspect of a socialist system, which is avoided by successful socialist nations.

Edit: This was meant to be a reply to the parent comment.

Re: My Venezuela Nightmare: A 30-Day Hunt for Food in a Starving Land

#44

Post by CamonZ » Mon, Jul 18, 2016, 5:07 PM UTC

lightlyused wrote: post #14

elcct wrote: post #8

Socialism at its finest

Lack of a functional democracy is the problem, not socialism.

Says the person who has never lived under socialism.

We were a functioning democracy, in fact we were the most stable and rich country in latin america.

Socialism has led to a non–functioning democracy, shortages, massive crime and violence.

Re: My Venezuela Nightmare: A 30-Day Hunt for Food in a Starving Land

#45

Post by throw89234 » Mon, Jul 18, 2016, 5:07 PM UTC

I grow-up in similar conditions. It is always funny when some spoiled kid with $500 handbag calls me privileged cis-gender white male.

Re: My Venezuela Nightmare: A 30-Day Hunt for Food in a Starving Land

#46

Post by CWuestefeld » Mon, Jul 18, 2016, 5:08 PM UTC

lightlyused wrote: post #14

elcct wrote: post #8

Socialism at its finest

Lack of a functional democracy is the problem, not socialism.

You need to read Hayek's The Road to Serfdom. He explains how giving the State the power to make all the economic decisions necessarily devolves into this kind of dystopia.

Re: My Venezuela Nightmare: A 30-Day Hunt for Food in a Starving Land

#47

Post by angersock » Mon, Jul 18, 2016, 5:08 PM UTC

sxcurry wrote: post #29

madengr wrote: post #13

Wow, reads like Atlas Shrugged. Could easily happen in this country. I feel bad for the 45% that didn't support the socialists.

Well, not exactly like Atlas Shrugged, because the article is well written and coherent.

And short.

Re: My Venezuela Nightmare: A 30-Day Hunt for Food in a Starving Land

#48

Post by junto » Mon, Jul 18, 2016, 5:08 PM UTC

Venezuela is on the brink. It has a socialist majority because previously the rich bleed them dry. Now the boot is on the other foot and the socialists are starving out the middle and upper classes who traditionally voted for the elite that controlled the media in Venezuela.

So sad. At some point it will flip again and the cycle will repeat itself.

Meanwhile the US continues to pressure the socialist government through sanctions in order to break a government that they don't approve of. Whilst the oil price remains low, the socialist government can't profit enough to get back on track.

The innocents, including children are going to starve, because the USA refuses have any kind of socialist leaning government in its back yard. it's been going on for decades. Rinse and repeat. Meanwhile the socialist "elite" make sure that they have good on their tables and punish the middle classes for their refusal to accept their ideology, happily lining their own bank accounts.

It is somewhat ironic that their neighbour Colombia, that for years was the black sheep of the region, has swapped roles with its previously rich sibling.

Re: My Venezuela Nightmare: A 30-Day Hunt for Food in a Starving Land

#49

Post by CamonZ » Mon, Jul 18, 2016, 5:08 PM UTC

randiantech wrote: post #28

zeveb wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Lack of a functional democracy is the problem, not socialism. It's entirely possible to democratically decide to steal the means of production from the capitalists — and thus experience exactly these consequences.

I cant recall a single example of a functional democracy in a socialist government. Seems to be mutually exclusive outputs.

@eudox. Rigged elections.

Re: My Venezuela Nightmare: A 30-Day Hunt for Food in a Starving Land

#50

Post by pastProlog » Mon, Jul 18, 2016, 5:08 PM UTC

cowardlydragon wrote: post #22

This is of course getting a ton of press in Commie hating USA, but how much worse is this than narcostates or right-wing deathsquad-enforced regimes set up by the US? And of course since the US/CIA loved to plot overthrows and juntas, how could the country trust aid offers? And the wire recordings of Henry Kissinger trying to deliberately collapse the Argentinian economy before their takeover... I get that this is si…

Yes, Honduras is in a far worse state right now than Venezuela after Obama and Hillary supported the military coup against the majority indigenous/mestizo backed president, and the handful of white landowners of 90% of the land had the US trained/armed/funded army take over. Berta Caceres is just the latest murder, scores of political candidates, organizers etc. have been murdered, the murder rate is higher than Venezuela certainly, Hondurans have been pouring over the US border as reported etc.

Venezuela has been very heavily dependent on oil for decades and this happens every time oil's price plunges for a long period in Venezuela, look at its history since WWII. The same is happening to every oil-dependent region in the world (except Saudi Arabia, which is doing the market flooding).

The article opening lines talking about how unique the situation is without mentioning what is happening in Honduras this moment is a laugh.