Windows 10 a failure by Microsoft's own metric • Hacker News Board

Re: Windows 10 a failure by Microsoft's own metric

#51

Post by tedunangst » Mon, Jul 18, 2016, 2:20 PM UTC

adevine wrote: post #46

davidf18 wrote: post #40

In real dollars, the cost of Macs are extremely low. $1 in 2000 is about $1.40 now. So the cost of a $1000 13" Mac Air which is a very respectable laptop is about $700 in 2000 dollars. Even IBM has gone to using Macs today. http://www.computerworld.com/article/2998315/apple-mac/every... So the machines are very cheap, even to IBM they are easier to use and require less tech support. For those that want to do some sof…

> In real dollars, the cost of Macs are extremely low. $1 in 2000 is about $1.40 now. So the cost of a $1000 13" Mac Air which is a very respectable laptop is about $700 in 2000 dollars. This comparison makes no sense to me. It's 2016, not 2000, so the fact that a Mac Air is $700 in 2000 dollars is a completely random and arbitrary number.

You couldn't buy any laptop of any quality for $700 in 2000. Macs have the reputation of being overpriced, but they are much more affordable than computers at the turn of the century. Of course, PCs are still available for less, but the point is that many people previously unable to afford a Mac can.

Re: Windows 10 a failure by Microsoft's own metric

#52

Post by tedunangst » Mon, Jul 18, 2016, 2:23 PM UTC

gnu8 wrote: post #19

rasz_pl wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What sales? most of current installs come from underhanded malware infection.

Why would this comment be voted down? Software that tries to mislead and nag the user into taking an action that damages their computer is malware. The only reason Microsoft doesn't forcibly apply the update to all Windows computers without permission is because that would undeniably be malware. But the net effect is the same - Windows 10 is installed without the owner's knowledge or consent. Windows 10 IS malware.

The word "most" could probably use some supporting evidence. Otherwise it doesn't contribute much to the conversation.

Re: Windows 10 a failure by Microsoft's own metric

#53

Post by goodplay » Mon, Jul 18, 2016, 2:25 PM UTC

iancarroll wrote: post #42

gnu8 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would this comment be voted down? Software that tries to mislead and nag the user into taking an action that damages their computer is malware. The only reason Microsoft doesn't forcibly apply the update to all Windows computers without permission is because that would undeniably be malware. But the net effect is the same - Windows 10 is installed without the owner's knowledge or consent. Windows 10 IS malware.

Windows 10 doesn't (edit: intentionally) damage a computer. Calling it malware is ridiculous.

neither does a key logger.

I tend to call software that tries to trick users into doing things they explicitly do not want to do malware, but that's just me.

Re: Windows 10 a failure by Microsoft's own metric

#54

Post by SyneRyder » Mon, Jul 18, 2016, 2:29 PM UTC

davidf18 wrote: post #40

In real dollars, the cost of Macs are extremely low. $1 in 2000 is about $1.40 now. So the cost of a $1000 13" Mac Air which is a very respectable laptop is about $700 in 2000 dollars. Even IBM has gone to using Macs today. http://www.computerworld.com/article/2998315/apple-mac/every... So the machines are very cheap, even to IBM they are easier to use and require less tech support. For those that want to do some sof…

As much as I like my Macs, I don't think you can claim a Mac is cheap now. I was in the market for a new MacBook Pro, but the machine I was looking at was going to cost me over $4000 (Australian, but at today's exchange rates that's still about $3200 USD). Apple really price gouge on SSD & RAM upgrades - there is no way a 1TB SSD costs $800.

I ended up buying a fully-spec'd 2012 MBP instead (more affordable, better keyboard & trackpad than the 2015s) - and shortly after, a friend bought an identically spec'd HP for half the price of my new Mac. I'd love to say I'd bought a more reliable machine, but this MBP has already been back to the Apple Store twice for repairs in just 6 months. Frankly, it's become embarrassing to buy Apple.

So even though I'm that guy who queued up for a day-one iPhone 4, wore Panic Spinner t-shirts into the Apple Store & knew the staff, persuaded clients & work to support Macs... I now recommend PCs and Windows 10 to friends instead. I can't justify the 100% markup anymore. And since Apple stopped updating macOS for my older Macs (a MacBook 1,1 and 3,1) I even run Windows 10 on my old Macs - now I know I'll get security updates until 2020 on those machines, even though Apple insists they're obsolete. (Win10 runs pretty well on them.)

Re: Windows 10 a failure by Microsoft's own metric

#55

Post by tremon » Mon, Jul 18, 2016, 2:31 PM UTC

mistermann wrote: post #38

stordoff wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When I tried a pre-Win10 Lumia in a store I actually found it very impressive, but I heard that the Win10 mobile launch had a rocky start. It's been solid since, but the first month or so of Windows 10 on a Lumia 950 was rough going. Store was unreliable, battery drained in ~6 hours (same hardware/usage will now last me 24+ hours), and auto-updater got permanently stuck at 0%. Only way to move to a working build wa…

> battery drained in ~6 hours So, parity with Android then? (I kid, I kid....kinda.)

My Galaxy Note 2 still has a battery life of about a week, still running on the original battery. I just need to remember to enable Wifi only on when needed, or it'll drain the battery in two days.

Re: Windows 10 a failure by Microsoft's own metric

#56

Post by plandis » Mon, Jul 18, 2016, 2:36 PM UTC

noxToken wrote: post #23

zerr wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similarly, but for me it was Vista. I'm still on Win7 until MS comes up with "better 7", nothing so far...

I plan on test driving 10 this weekend. From what I've heard (installation tactics aside), it seems like Win10 is a better Win7. What about it doesn't make it a better Win7? Edit: Clarification.

My favorite part is the forced upgrades. Didn't want to reboot your computer? WELL TOO BAD MICROSOFT KNOWS BEST.

Re: Windows 10 a failure by Microsoft's own metric

#57

Post by nimos » Mon, Jul 18, 2016, 2:41 PM UTC

I think a big part of the problem is Windows 7 is so good. I have very little incentive to switch at all. I'll probably do it sometime in the next week because free upgrades end July 29th but only because I have Windows 10 on a laptop and I've been happy with it. If I hadn't had that experience I wouldn't risk it.

Re: Windows 10 a failure by Microsoft's own metric

#58

Post by SeanDav » Mon, Jul 18, 2016, 2:41 PM UTC

Ironically, Windows 10 is probably the Microsoft OS that is going to push me full time to using Linux. Right now I use Linux for work, but home network, and laptops (except 1 Mac) all run on Windows 7/8. However the underhanded tactics that Microsoft have resorted to in order to try force me to upgrade and the fact that I lose significant (actually all) control on patching, worries about MS spyware etc means that Windows 7/8 is the last Microsoft OS for me.

Re: Windows 10 a failure by Microsoft's own metric

#59

Post by izzydata » Mon, Jul 18, 2016, 2:41 PM UTC

jasonkostempski wrote: post #34

muraiki wrote: post #13

I read another article that said that the failure to reach this metric was due to the lack of sales of Win10 on phones. When I tried a pre-Win10 Lumia in a store I actually found it very impressive, but I heard that the Win10 mobile launch had a rocky start. It seems strange to me that Microsoft was pushing for universal apps, and now that it's close enough to finally happening they've given up on mobile. Somewhat of…

"Your files are exactly where you left them" I found something very HALish about that screen. A vague somewhat reassuring statement with an ominous tone. I mean, great, they're right where I left them but will you grant me access them?

The sad thing about that screen is when you login only discover windows has uninstalled some of your software.

Re: Windows 10 a failure by Microsoft's own metric

#60

Post by SeanDav » Mon, Jul 18, 2016, 2:48 PM UTC

iancarroll wrote: post #42

gnu8 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would this comment be voted down? Software that tries to mislead and nag the user into taking an action that damages their computer is malware. The only reason Microsoft doesn't forcibly apply the update to all Windows computers without permission is because that would undeniably be malware. But the net effect is the same - Windows 10 is installed without the owner's knowledge or consent. Windows 10 IS malware.

Windows 10 doesn't (edit: intentionally) damage a computer. Calling it malware is ridiculous.

I had to install software (GWX) and keep it updated in order to prevent Microsoft from trying to trick me into installing Windows 10 and nagging me every 10 minutes to "upgrade".

Perhaps not malware, but not a huge leap away from it.