How a Danish Town Helped Young Muslims Turn Away from ISIS • Hacker News Board

Re: How a Danish Town Helped Young Muslims Turn Away from ISIS

#71

Post by DominikR » Mon, Jul 18, 2016, 12:30 AM UTC

cyberferret wrote: post #57

Kenji wrote: post #52

I love how it's always others being evil and 'discriminate' against the muslims that then become terrorists. Like, 'Those evil, evil westerners rejected him and did not appreciate his culture. That was the catalyst for him wanting to become a terrorist.' Imagine this: You go to a foreign country or are raised in a foreign culture (because things in your own country are horrible at the moment). You feel mistreated (ev…

Let me guess - you've never been in a large group situation where you are seemingly accepted, but nearly everyone looks down upon you and treats you with constant suspicion and questions your motives and reminds you on a regular basis that you are different, and that you are lucky to be part of the group. Have you?

Seriously, who cares? Everyone of us will have to deal at some point in life with people that look down upon us for stupid reasons.

That doesn't give you an excuse to kill 100 random strangers!

It is their culture that causes this, as they have a loud group that constantly calls for these massacres and generally very few of them speak up against this loud group of fanatics.

We don't have anything like that in our culture, that's why it's so rare that somebody from us ends up mass murdering 100 random persons.

If someone from us tried calling for mass murdering some minority he'll actually be locked up in no time and attacked harshly by the media. That's how we effectively deal with our radicals.

I'm tired of all these attempts to appease members of this culture as it is clearly a much worse culture than ours and they could actually learn something from us.

Where ever Muslims are the majority you always see the same result: Poverty, cruel law system, oppression, massacre and often civil war

And somehow no one seems to be willing to accept that this is the direct result of their value system and their culture.

How are they ever going to improve their societies if we help their fanatics to keep oppressing dissenters by constantly repeating that their culture is great and everything's fine?

Edit: And because I'm sure someone will state that this is unfair because we constantly meddle in their affairs: We also constantly meddle in Russian, Chinese, Indian, Japanese and EU affairs and vice versa.

Still these societies seem to be sufficiently resilient to not collapse in mass murder and total chaos.

Muslim societies constantly collapsed when Socialism was en vogue 50 years ago same as they collapse today with Islamism. You can promote any -Ism you want there, nothing will change as long as the oppressive nature of their culture doesn't change.

Re: How a Danish Town Helped Young Muslims Turn Away from ISIS

#72

Post by noobermin » Mon, Jul 18, 2016, 12:46 AM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #59

noobermin wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really think that the media is giving us an impression that emphasizes sensational stories over more mundane but relevant ones. One is far more likely to die in the US from petty gun violence than a terrorist attack, as gruesome as the recent attacks have been, nothing has changed that statistic. Moreover, I'm more likely to die from a car accident than gun violence, and probably more likely to die from heart disea…

I used to be an optimist as well. But the last 10 years have slowly but surely made me wonder if we're really as stupid as it seems that we are. Just some samples: A couple of days ago there was an article about Duerte here on HN, the newly minted presidente of the Philippines. Whose primary solution to everything seems to be a well placed bullet, oh, and never mind a couple of rapes, as long as he's the first one in…

I can't dissuade you and it's not my place to, of course, but even in the midst of darkness, I see a couple of things to hope for. From certain movements here in the US to other political decisions and developments that seem to step in the right direction even when many are not, I have hope that on net there is still hope for the future.

Also, I am 26 this year, so I will probably have to deal with the ramifications of whatever happens today for longer than many who are deciding will. One would think that would be more reason for me to be even more fearful then but the way I see it is that it pushes me even more to be optimistic for my future, because I have more to lose. Plus, the stereotype that goes with youth and over-optimism, etc.

Re: How a Danish Town Helped Young Muslims Turn Away from ISIS

#73

Post by gkya » Mon, Jul 18, 2016, 12:53 AM UTC

oldboyFX wrote: post #23

HappyFunGuy wrote: post #19

This is a story about Somali Jamal in Denmark, who planned to join ISIS with his friends. But a cop called him, and apologized for uh.., thinking he might be a threat. So Jamal uh, changes his mind, but two of his buddies don't and die in Syria. So if you hug a terrorist, he might not want to kill you as much, maybe. You know who doesn't have this terrorist hugging problem? Japan.

It's because they're racist. Do you want to be racist like Japan or get BTFO'd? That's what I thought! edit: It's a (bad) joke.

While blanket terms are bad, and my knowledge of Japan is too little, pure racism probably is (very?) widespread there. I recall seeing (on news) a beauty queen in name of Japan was alienated or harassed for being of mixed race, half-Japanese. Maybe someone actually familiar will come along to tell us about the reality.

Re: How a Danish Town Helped Young Muslims Turn Away from ISIS

#74

Post by raverbashing » Mon, Jul 18, 2016, 12:54 AM UTC

jomamaxx wrote: post #42

Animats wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aarhus is the second-largest city in Denmark. Copenhagen is only ~562K. But still, that's a lot of people for what most countries consider a small city. "Potential radical" can be anyone who goes to a mosque with a militant iman. That may not be a meaningful designation. Only about 1 in 10,000 tried to join ISIS. About 250 Americans have tried to join ISIS, says the FBI. That's about 1 in a million for the US. Around…

It is very interesting, given that the US is directly involved in Syria, whereas Denmark is not. It has much to do with how people integrated into Europe v America. Europe is very difficult to integrated into - they are ethnic groups. You can mostly 'become American' but it's almost impossible to 'become Danish' unless you are there from a very early age. Americans in particular have a hard time with this, because th…

It's very easy to blame Europeans for not rolling the carpet to a group associated with misogyny and anti secularism.

Re: How a Danish Town Helped Young Muslims Turn Away from ISIS

#75

Post by gkya » Mon, Jul 18, 2016, 12:55 AM UTC

ameen wrote: post #43

HappyFunGuy wrote: post #28

Hey anyone know if muslim population correlate with terror attacks, and if so, is it causative?

When you say Muslim you're ignoring other important factors as well. All attackers in France were petty criminals who had prior convictions and poor human beings with a history of spousal abuse, alcoholism, etc.[1] They most likely were at the bottom of the economic strata weren't educated beyond school or had well paying jobs or opportunities. Seems more likely to be an issue of disillusioned youth making poor choic…

Please don't feed this abusive and offensive troll.

Re: How a Danish Town Helped Young Muslims Turn Away from ISIS

#76

Post by cyberferret » Mon, Jul 18, 2016, 1:00 AM UTC

HappyFunGuy wrote: post #62

cyberferret wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me guess - you've never been in a large group situation where you are seemingly accepted, but nearly everyone looks down upon you and treats you with constant suspicion and questions your motives and reminds you on a regular basis that you are different, and that you are lucky to be part of the group. Have you?

Since you were obtuse in describing the "large groups situation" are you talking about fat kids? or fat adults? or nerds? Did you steal my cake? Or are you trying to talk about race? Or age? Dude, wtf are you talking about? Are you talking about being a minority? English. Speak it.

ALL the scenarios you mentioned above apply. The fact that you cannot seem to grasp that probably indicates that you are outside all of those groups, and have never experienced what I stated (in plain English) in my original post.

Let me give you an example from my own experience - I am of sub-continental heritage, and my family migrated to Australia over 3 decades ago. It has been 99.999% a fantastic life and I embrace the great life and great people here.

But a few years back there were a few high profile cases of young Indian men brutally raping women in India, and other places. The mass media latched onto this and immediately went into portraying any man of Indian descent as being a brutal rapist in waiting. I felt that societal change. Almost overnight, I noticed people move away from me when I entered a store. There was a measured difference in the hostility I experienced when talking to people I didn't know. Young women would cross the street when they saw me approach, and cross back after I had passed.

Observing these changes DID cause a rage to boil up inside me. How could someone who didn't even know me as a person judge me by the actions of others. I had done everything I could to integrate and embrace this new world, but for the first time ever, I felt unwanted and that my presence was causing discomfort for those around me.

It never got to the extent of projecting that hurt and anger at anyone else, nor would I, because that is not in my nature. Thankfully the media lost interest in that narrative fairly quickly, and people now treat me in an open friendly way as before.

But if those negative perceptions were perpetually front and centre in the media, and I had to bear the brunt of it for an extended period then I really don't know how my ultimate reaction would have manifested itself.

Re: How a Danish Town Helped Young Muslims Turn Away from ISIS

#77

Post by cyberferret » Mon, Jul 18, 2016, 1:10 AM UTC

DominikR wrote: post #71

cyberferret wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me guess - you've never been in a large group situation where you are seemingly accepted, but nearly everyone looks down upon you and treats you with constant suspicion and questions your motives and reminds you on a regular basis that you are different, and that you are lucky to be part of the group. Have you?

Seriously, who cares? Everyone of us will have to deal at some point in life with people that look down upon us for stupid reasons. That doesn't give you an excuse to kill 100 random strangers! It is their culture that causes this, as they have a loud group that constantly calls for these massacres and generally very few of them speak up against this loud group of fanatics. We don't have anything like that in our cul…

> We don't have anything like that in our culture, that's why it's so rare that somebody from us ends up mass murdering 100 random persons.

The USA has something endemic in their culture which results in toddlers killing more people that terrorists have in their country this year.

People in other countries without this same culture try telling the US how that can stop it by trying the same things that worked in their own countries but keep being told to go away, there is nothing wrong and to mind their own business.

> We also constantly meddle in Russian, Chinese, Indian, Japanese and EU affairs and vice versa. Still these societies seem to be sufficiently resilient to not collapse in mass murder and total chaos.

Does the US 'meddle' in those countries to the extent of placing troops on the ground within their borders in order to shoot at citizens of said country? Does the US conduct drone strikes against people of those countries?

Re: How a Danish Town Helped Young Muslims Turn Away from ISIS

#78

Post by cup » Mon, Jul 18, 2016, 1:11 AM UTC

jomamaxx wrote: post #37

oldboyFX wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because they're racist. Do you want to be racist like Japan or get BTFO'd? That's what I thought! edit: It's a (bad) joke.

"It's because they're racist. " Funny, Japan doesn't have a terrorism problem.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Terrorism_in_Japan

Re: How a Danish Town Helped Young Muslims Turn Away from ISIS

#79

Post by return0 » Mon, Jul 18, 2016, 1:13 AM UTC

jomamaxx wrote: post #42

Animats wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aarhus is the second-largest city in Denmark. Copenhagen is only ~562K. But still, that's a lot of people for what most countries consider a small city. "Potential radical" can be anyone who goes to a mosque with a militant iman. That may not be a meaningful designation. Only about 1 in 10,000 tried to join ISIS. About 250 Americans have tried to join ISIS, says the FBI. That's about 1 in a million for the US. Around…

It is very interesting, given that the US is directly involved in Syria, whereas Denmark is not. It has much to do with how people integrated into Europe v America. Europe is very difficult to integrated into - they are ethnic groups. You can mostly 'become American' but it's almost impossible to 'become Danish' unless you are there from a very early age. Americans in particular have a hard time with this, because th…

What you describe also affects the immigrants. In america, immigrants generally look to get in and probably settle down. Immigrants in europe are often shopping for jobs in different countries, maybe a year in country A , another year in country B, always looking to move north. In the meantime they don't grow roots any new country but keep hanging out with their kin or other immigrants.

You 're right however, cultural barriers are high in europe, even for EU immigrants. Europe should have thought twice before carelessly declaring an open immigration policy.

Re: How a Danish Town Helped Young Muslims Turn Away from ISIS

#80

Post by sctb » Mon, Jul 18, 2016, 1:20 AM UTC

HappyFunGuy wrote: post #62

cyberferret wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me guess - you've never been in a large group situation where you are seemingly accepted, but nearly everyone looks down upon you and treats you with constant suspicion and questions your motives and reminds you on a regular basis that you are different, and that you are lucky to be part of the group. Have you?

Since you were obtuse in describing the "large groups situation" are you talking about fat kids? or fat adults? or nerds? Did you steal my cake? Or are you trying to talk about race? Or age? Dude, wtf are you talking about? Are you talking about being a minority? English. Speak it.

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