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How a Danish Town Helped Young Muslims Turn Away from ISIS

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Re: How a Danish Town Helped Young Muslims Turn Away from ISIS

#61

Post by noobermin »

Kenji wrote: post #52

I love how it's always others being evil and 'discriminate' against the muslims that then become terrorists. Like, 'Those evil, evil westerners rejected him and did not appreciate his culture. That was the catalyst for him wanting to become a terrorist.' Imagine this: You go to a foreign country or are raised in a foreign culture (because things in your own country are horrible at the moment). You feel mistreated (ev…

I have an explanation for why they entertained such lunacy: they are kids and don't make a full philosophical evaluation of their state in life. That certainly fits in this case.

Moreover, it's not like the Muslim parents wanted their children to go wage Jihad on the west. Once again, we see in this case the radicalization happens outside the mosque amongst splinter groups, so asking that "Muslim culture" have a cultural shift is the wrong place to ask for change given that the kids didn't want to follow "the old guys" in the mosque anyway.

Not that influences from the Mosque wouldn't help, and I don't know if these Mosque leaders helped or hurt but my impression from the story is that they were rebelled against too.

Re: How a Danish Town Helped Young Muslims Turn Away from ISIS

#62

Post by HappyFunGuy »

cyberferret wrote: post #57
Kenji wrote: post #52

I love how it's always others being evil and 'discriminate' against the muslims that then become terrorists. Like, 'Those evil, evil westerners rejected him and did not appreciate his culture. That was the catalyst for him wanting to become a terrorist.' Imagine this: You go to a foreign country or are raised in a foreign culture (because things in your own country are horrible at the moment). You feel mistreated (ev…

Let me guess - you've never been in a large group situation where you are seemingly accepted, but nearly everyone looks down upon you and treats you with constant suspicion and questions your motives and reminds you on a regular basis that you are different, and that you are lucky to be part of the group. Have you?

Since you were obtuse in describing the "large groups situation" are you talking about fat kids? or fat adults? or nerds? Did you steal my cake? Or are you trying to talk about race? Or age? Dude, wtf are you talking about?

Are you talking about being a minority? English. Speak it.

Re: How a Danish Town Helped Young Muslims Turn Away from ISIS

#63

Post by HappyFunGuy »

noobermin wrote: post #58
Mz wrote: post #16

Hearing a policeman take responsibility for his life getting derailed really moved Jamal. He agreed to come into Link's office. They are doing good work. This all fits with everything I have ever read about how to undermine extremism, radicalization, etc. Time does not tend to heal such wounds. It tends to make them fester. That doesn't mean they cannot be healed.

Unfortunately, this section is becoming a political thread while I feel like there is more to be said about psychology here. It feels unnatural especially to accept someone back when they've essentially fought against you. At worse, one would wonder if you embolden criminals when you do this. I think it comes down to motivation. If a criminal is say like a sadist rapist, giving him a hug after he rapes will just embo…

We can read inside peoples heads. We call it listening. What people want is to feel important, some rape, some jihad, and some virtue signal. The overhead of even needing to measure or guess their real intention or state exceeds their lifetime value to the culture in comparison to the best viable alternative immigrant. You're cash negative even bothering to measure their riskiness.

Re: How a Danish Town Helped Young Muslims Turn Away from ISIS

#64

Post by DanBC »

HappyFunGuy wrote: post #28

Hey anyone know if muslim population correlate with terror attacks, and if so, is it causative?

Currently Muslims are the main targets and by far the most numerous victims of terrorist action, so there probably is a correlation.

http://indy100.independent.co.uk/article/to-anyone-who-compl...

Re: How a Danish Town Helped Young Muslims Turn Away from ISIS

#65

Post by toomanybeersies »

jomamaxx wrote: post #42
Animats wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aarhus is the second-largest city in Denmark. Copenhagen is only ~562K. But still, that's a lot of people for what most countries consider a small city. "Potential radical" can be anyone who goes to a mosque with a militant iman. That may not be a meaningful designation. Only about 1 in 10,000 tried to join ISIS. About 250 Americans have tried to join ISIS, says the FBI. That's about 1 in a million for the US. Around…

It is very interesting, given that the US is directly involved in Syria, whereas Denmark is not. It has much to do with how people integrated into Europe v America. Europe is very difficult to integrated into - they are ethnic groups. You can mostly 'become American' but it's almost impossible to 'become Danish' unless you are there from a very early age. Americans in particular have a hard time with this, because th…

I don't think it's the ease of integration into the USA, but the fact that the Muslim immigrants to the USA tend to be better educated and more well off than the immigrants and refugees heading into Europe.

There's the Atlantic Ocean between the USA and the Middle East/North Africa, so they can be a lot more picky about who they choose to let in.

Re: How a Danish Town Helped Young Muslims Turn Away from ISIS

#66

Post by toomanybeersies »

internaut wrote: post #12
ceejayoz wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going to Syria isn't necessarily joining ISIS. There are many rebel groups, some directly fighting against ISIS.

I keep hearing this and it does not comfort me much. Remember how the West had a problem with... The Taliban... then Al-Qaeda...... then ISIS.......... then ?? The names are changing but something else remains constant or is getting worse.

The Taliban and AQ are two very different problems. The Taliban is a regional force, who don't have international ambitions, they are/were faction in a civil war.

Re: How a Danish Town Helped Young Muslims Turn Away from ISIS

#67

Post by oldboyFX »

jomamaxx wrote: post #33
HappyFunGuy wrote: post #28

Hey anyone know if muslim population correlate with terror attacks, and if so, is it causative?

You're probably downvoted because of the difficulty some people have when the facts might possibly contradict their ideological motivations. It's a problem across the political spectrum. Nobody wants to know the truth. They want to push their narrative.

You're probably one of those racists like that Sam Harris guy!

In all seriousness this kind of thing should be discussed more openly. I'm afraid that political correctness leads to nothing more than repressed bigotry. Better than open bigotry but less better than actually trying to solve the problem.

Re: How a Danish Town Helped Young Muslims Turn Away from ISIS

#68

Post by toomanybeersies »

HappyFunGuy wrote: post #48
ameen wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you say Muslim you're ignoring other important factors as well. All attackers in France were petty criminals who had prior convictions and poor human beings with a history of spousal abuse, alcoholism, etc.[1] They most likely were at the bottom of the economic strata weren't educated beyond school or had well paying jobs or opportunities. Seems more likely to be an issue of disillusioned youth making poor choic…

So you're saying ban poor people. How dare you! And agist as well. All youth make poor decisions and hurt people!?1!one!1 Saying I have a muslim friend, he's cool, is not a counterpoint for a literal request for statistics. That statistic you presented was of one, albeit outliar in nearly all areas country. We need better/more data.

I don't think that parent is saying ban poor people, but rather take steps to avoid making slums and disillusionment amongst entire populations.

The mastermind (if you can call him that) of the November attacks last year, Salah Abdeslam, was also a petty criminal and was radicalized only recently before the attacks were carried out. At least one of the gunmen also had prior convictions for petty crime.

3 out of 5 of the attackers in Brussels this year also had prior convictions for non-religious crime (I wouldn't consider robbing a bank to be petty).

It's the same mechanism that makes Bloods and Crips.

Re: How a Danish Town Helped Young Muslims Turn Away from ISIS

#69

Post by yomism »

jacquesm wrote: post #59
noobermin wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really think that the media is giving us an impression that emphasizes sensational stories over more mundane but relevant ones. One is far more likely to die in the US from petty gun violence than a terrorist attack, as gruesome as the recent attacks have been, nothing has changed that statistic. Moreover, I'm more likely to die from a car accident than gun violence, and probably more likely to die from heart disea…

I used to be an optimist as well. But the last 10 years have slowly but surely made me wonder if we're really as stupid as it seems that we are. Just some samples: A couple of days ago there was an article about Duerte here on HN, the newly minted presidente of the Philippines. Whose primary solution to everything seems to be a well placed bullet, oh, and never mind a couple of rapes, as long as he's the first one in…

I think the main problem is that we have our heads contaminated by too much "news". We live in constant fear, even when statistically we are less violent than ever.

For instance, terrorism works when its actions are published for the more people to see as possible. Statistically you have more probabilities of chocking to death on your breakfast or slipping in the shower than dying from a terrorist action in Europe/US.

Rational thought is on the backseat... So hence the pessimism and thoughts that something bad is comming.

Please take a look at this: https://www.theguardian.com/media/2013/apr/12/news-is-bad-ro...

Re: How a Danish Town Helped Young Muslims Turn Away from ISIS

#70

Post by jacquesm »

yomism wrote: post #69
jacquesm wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to be an optimist as well. But the last 10 years have slowly but surely made me wonder if we're really as stupid as it seems that we are. Just some samples: A couple of days ago there was an article about Duerte here on HN, the newly minted presidente of the Philippines. Whose primary solution to everything seems to be a well placed bullet, oh, and never mind a couple of rapes, as long as he's the first one in…

I think the main problem is that we have our heads contaminated by too much "news". We live in constant fear, even when statistically we are less violent than ever. For instance, terrorism works when its actions are published for the more people to see as possible. Statistically you have more probabilities of chocking to death on your breakfast or slipping in the shower than dying from a terrorist action in Europe/US…

> Statistically you have more probabilities of chocking to death on your breakfast or slipping in the shower than dying from a terrorist action in Europe/US.

I already acknowledged that so there is no need to make that point again and again.

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