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Passport Index 2016

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Re: Passport Index 2016

#101

Post by sevenless »

wildmusings wrote: post #78
tuna-piano wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not so sure it's illogical. It's tough to kick people out of a country that they were born in. While a 3 time armed robber born in the US and released from prison will be back on the streets of the US - ideally he / she would be sent somewhere else. Immigration is a rare time when a country can choose what people to allow in or not. I would think that a country should be more concerned about its own residents tha…

I'd expand that to cultural preservation in general. The French like being French and living in a French country, with all that entails concerning values, music, food, and way of life. The Japanese like being Japanese and living in a Japanese country. Mass migration can change the character of a country. It's totally logical to want to preserve your culture and way of life. If 100 million people from the Middle East…

This will be controversial, but France doesn't have any right to be a "French" country. Individuals have rights, but cultures and nations don't have a right to exist. If they did we would be obliged to preserve them, but peoples, countries and cultures always vanish over time, and there's no general obligation to stop this happening. Saying otherwise is simply a conservative demand, with no ethical basis.

"The French like being French and living in a French country, with all that entails" - This claim also implies a right for the French people to preserve the ethnic composition (white French) of their country, which is both racist and probably impossible.

I'd argue the aggregate human benefit to letting people from poor countries move to wealthy countries far outweighs any inconvenience or discomfort caused to the wealthy. 100 million people aren't going to move from the Middle East, but they might well move from subsaharan Africa, and it would certainly greatly improve their lives, and living conditions in Africa as they sent money 'back home'. French culture does not seem important compared to stopping millions of deaths from disease and starvation.

Re: Passport Index 2016

#102

Post by danra »

danra wrote: post #4

Anyone else reminded of Passport Please? Imagine having to recognize a fake passport by a slight difference in symbol/text format :)

"Papers, Please", of course... I'm not worthy of glorious arstotzka.

Re: Passport Index 2016

#105

Post by wh0car3s »

sevenless wrote: post #42

Is there a guide to multiple citizenship power leveling anywhere? Edit: A bit of munging from the web page later... For Americans and British/Western Europe, the passports you want are Burkina Faso, Benin and Senegal. They will bring your passport power level up by 13 points to 168 (American) and 170 (UK) and give you visa free access to Cote Divoire (Ivory Coast), Mali, Iran, Congo, Niger, Benin, Nigeria, Liberia, C…

Re: Japan/Singapore/Senegal and 2 other passports - in theory a great idea but those 3 countries do not allow dual citizenship.

As far as dual citizenship (with the greatest amount of travel) is concerned, anyone of the G7 country passport (minus Japan) and one other should be fine. Best I could think of is US/Germany/UK/etc. + Chile (visa free throughout S. America, Europe including Russia, India). For visa-free travel to China, if your nationality & business qualifies, you can apply for an APEC business travel card.

Re: Passport Index 2016

#106

Post by tormeh »

wildmusings wrote: post #78
tuna-piano wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not so sure it's illogical. It's tough to kick people out of a country that they were born in. While a 3 time armed robber born in the US and released from prison will be back on the streets of the US - ideally he / she would be sent somewhere else. Immigration is a rare time when a country can choose what people to allow in or not. I would think that a country should be more concerned about its own residents tha…

I'd expand that to cultural preservation in general. The French like being French and living in a French country, with all that entails concerning values, music, food, and way of life. The Japanese like being Japanese and living in a Japanese country. Mass migration can change the character of a country. It's totally logical to want to preserve your culture and way of life. If 100 million people from the Middle East…

Yes, but as far as I can tell this is not France's biggest problem, and if they fixed the bigger problems this one would get a lot more manageable.

It's... frustrating... that a failure in presenting 1st, 2nd, 3rd generations of immigrants with a good life results in terrorism, but two wrongs don't make a right.

Re: Passport Index 2016

#107

Post by radicaldreamer »

ZoF wrote: post #79
tuna-piano wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just 90 miles from Key West, Florida there is a country which required strict exit visas until just 3 years ago. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jan/15/cuba-relaxes-t...

"Just 90 miles from Key West there is a country" - Why not just explicitly state the country....? We know it's Cuba and these restrictions existed for obvious reasons.

For dramatic effect, which is good, since language is a construct for human expression.

Re: Passport Index 2016

#108

Post by AnthonyMouse »

uniqueid wrote: post #37
tuna-piano wrote: post #17

In relation to passport power - I find Trump's proposed ban on Muslims pretty interesting to think about. Although widely criticized, it seems to me more ethically wrong to base entry decisions on country of origin (not a choice) than of religion (a choice). Obviously there are many issues with the practicality, unintended consequences, and the blanket nature of a ban on muslims. That said, I'm not sure I see an ethi…

Reasoning about immigration laws is pointless because the foundation is based on magical thinking. There is no logic at all behind any of it. Citizenship by blood, by birthplace, by religion... then you look into getting a travel visa, or a work permit. There's nothing rational about any of it. Just endless lunacy. I probably shouldn't complain, as I'm eligible for four different citizenships... but when you look int…

> There is no logic at all behind any of it.

It isn't logic, it's politics. Immigrants who become citizens get the vote. It should be self-evident that the ideological composition of the voters controls what our laws and constitution will be and is therefore very important to the existing people.

Even outside of general ideological differences, you can imagine the trouble if antagonistic governments were free to send a million of their people to vote in strategic districts in swing states.

Re: Passport Index 2016

#109

Post by charlesism »

wildmusings wrote: post #78
tuna-piano wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not so sure it's illogical. It's tough to kick people out of a country that they were born in. While a 3 time armed robber born in the US and released from prison will be back on the streets of the US - ideally he / she would be sent somewhere else. Immigration is a rare time when a country can choose what people to allow in or not. I would think that a country should be more concerned about its own residents tha…

I'd expand that to cultural preservation in general. The French like being French and living in a French country, with all that entails concerning values, music, food, and way of life. The Japanese like being Japanese and living in a Japanese country. Mass migration can change the character of a country. It's totally logical to want to preserve your culture and way of life. If 100 million people from the Middle East…

Travel restrictions sound okay until you're in a situation where they actually affect you. I went on my share of hostel trips after university. I have yet to meet a traveler from any country, who thought it was fair that they couldn't work or live wherever they wanted. If you wanted to live in Japan, for example, and some Japanese guy told you he was worried you'd personally be damaging the country with your foreign values, I doubt you'd find much merit in the argument. That might be correct, I don't know, but it's hard to accept when the liberty being denied is one's own.

Re: Passport Index 2016

#110

Post by tormeh »

noobermin wrote: post #96
wildmusings wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd expand that to cultural preservation in general. The French like being French and living in a French country, with all that entails concerning values, music, food, and way of life. The Japanese like being Japanese and living in a Japanese country. Mass migration can change the character of a country. It's totally logical to want to preserve your culture and way of life. If 100 million people from the Middle East…

This clearly doesn't apply the United States then, who's culture is swallowing up immigrants and adding their influences to our melting pot.

Depends which Americans you ask. Try asking old, white and rural people about this and you might get a surprising answer. There is a disagreement about what America is and what's un-American and foreign.
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