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Passport Index 2016

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Re: Passport Index 2016

#51

Post by chaostheory »

jahnu wrote: post #46
hal9000xp wrote: post #28

I had citizenship of one most repressive and poor countries in the world - Uzbekistan. Later I obtained Russian citizenship. Now, I'm living in the Netherlands and plan to obtain citizenship of some first world country (NL, SG etc). So I have first hand experience to live with Uzbek passport and being practically completely isolated from the first world (nobody give you EU tourist visa if you have Uzbek passport and…

I can imagine. When I was in Uzbekistan I met a local man who had studied in the UK and he explained to me how hard it was to travel. I was amazed you needed exit visas for your own country. I thought that stuff died long ago (with the exception of North Korea or so).

Many countries in the Middle East still require exit visas. Dubai (UAE) is one of them

Re: Passport Index 2016

#52

Post by tarikjn »

tuna-piano wrote: post #17

In relation to passport power - I find Trump's proposed ban on Muslims pretty interesting to think about. Although widely criticized, it seems to me more ethically wrong to base entry decisions on country of origin (not a choice) than of religion (a choice). Obviously there are many issues with the practicality, unintended consequences, and the blanket nature of a ban on muslims. That said, I'm not sure I see an ethi…

This goes both ways:

(1) a ban on a country is usually there for a temporary reason of leverage on leaders/system of government on which the citizens may have a varying degree of control through different means.

(2) However, a ban on a religion which has many movements (some of them infighting), and radically opposed views and some crazies, on which the majority have no control or relationship with whatsoever could seem more wrong.

(1) is trading on an existing system of unethical attributes (2) is creating an additional one.

Let's not forget that the USA was founded by people who were looking for religious freedom and peace from prosecution.

A test on specific beliefs is much more appropriate and actually already implemented on immigration forms (e.g. questions on polygamy).

Re: Passport Index 2016

#53

Post by l0b0 »

tl;dr site review: Pros: Very good TLS setup. Cons: 4 MB, renders in about half a minute on a modern desktop, redirects from passportindex.org to www.passportindex.org/index.php.

Re: Passport Index 2016

#54

Post by cloudjacker »

sevenless wrote: post #42

Is there a guide to multiple citizenship power leveling anywhere? Edit: A bit of munging from the web page later... For Americans and British/Western Europe, the passports you want are Burkina Faso, Benin and Senegal. They will bring your passport power level up by 13 points to 168 (American) and 170 (UK) and give you visa free access to Cote Divoire (Ivory Coast), Mali, Iran, Congo, Niger, Benin, Nigeria, Liberia, C…

yeah, they are called 'second passport' guides.

assuming marriage is unfavorable and you don't want to pretend to be jewish, there are a couple of treaties you can take advantage of, typically old imperialist countries have guilt trips with their former south american or african colonies and have an easy citizenship path for citizens in those former colonies. But then those former colonies have really malleable government officials so you can get one passport and upgrade to EU, in theory.

then next way that is less theoretical requires money, liquid, cash.

Malta is in the EU and lets you buy an EU citizenship and passport. Takes one year, it isn't that expensive though. ~500,000 euros. Any homeowner in the bay area could do it. The majority of the cost is a real estate or bond investment, so you actually still have your principle.

Many first world countries like the US have pay for citizenship programs if you are wealthy and have liquid assets. Malta's is most analogous to the US' EB-5 citizenship investment program, except you get free trade and travel with a bunch of other countries (like if you really wanted to take advantage of Germany's laws or the UK's laws for your next domicile or company)

St. Kitts and Nevis is a federation in the Caribbean, they offer the same thing for like $250,000. The US State Department cautions investment with that country because of some favorable expropriation laws that government granted itself, but it is no different than civil asset forfeiture in almost any US state. The key point in St. Kitts and Nevis being a federation, like the United States, is that Nevis itself is a semi-autonomous state, like North Carolina would be. And has duplicate laws and officials that fly far under the radar for most international purposes. So, just keep that in mind if you ever need to get crafty.

Re: Passport Index 2016

#55

Post by charlesism »

eeZah7Ux wrote: post #49
uniqueid wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reasoning about immigration laws is pointless because the foundation is based on magical thinking. There is no logic at all behind any of it. Citizenship by blood, by birthplace, by religion... then you look into getting a travel visa, or a work permit. There's nothing rational about any of it. Just endless lunacy. I probably shouldn't complain, as I'm eligible for four different citizenships... but when you look int…

It's quite depressing to see how the concepts of country, nationality, borders are still widely accepted without questioning.

Yes. If you want to amuse yourself, take a look at the "I Want Out" section of Reddit. How quickly people begin to question when they realize how restrictive the situation really is. It all seems rational until you discover you can't spend more than three months in your girlfriend's country, or accept that job offer if some committee hasn't placed it in the "skilled labor" column.

Re: Passport Index 2016

#56

Post by Negitivefrags »

uniqueid wrote: post #37
tuna-piano wrote: post #17

In relation to passport power - I find Trump's proposed ban on Muslims pretty interesting to think about. Although widely criticized, it seems to me more ethically wrong to base entry decisions on country of origin (not a choice) than of religion (a choice). Obviously there are many issues with the practicality, unintended consequences, and the blanket nature of a ban on muslims. That said, I'm not sure I see an ethi…

Reasoning about immigration laws is pointless because the foundation is based on magical thinking. There is no logic at all behind any of it. Citizenship by blood, by birthplace, by religion... then you look into getting a travel visa, or a work permit. There's nothing rational about any of it. Just endless lunacy. I probably shouldn't complain, as I'm eligible for four different citizenships... but when you look int…

There is nothing illogical about it.

If all the worlds borders were open then economies would move to the average. Workers in poor countries would move to rich countries (because they have higher wages) until those countries wages had gone down, and the countries they left would have their wages go up due to the supply decrease in workers.

It's complete logical self interest for country richer than the average to not want to allow this to happen.

Re: Passport Index 2016

#57

Post by villedespommes »

cloudjacker wrote: post #50
tuna-piano wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've often thought of the dollar value of my US passport (/citizenship). It would definitely be my most valuable asset (then again, taxes are by far my biggest expense). Besides almost unrestricted travel - my income is far higher in the US than it would be in any other country I've looked at. It's easy to forget how lucky those of us in the developed world are and how so many try so hard to gain status here. Good lu…

> It's easy to forget how lucky those of us in the developed world are and how so many try so hard to gain status here. I like complaining about insignificant things for that specific reason.

Your passport is another first world problem. "There are so many visa-free countries I can visit! How do I pick one to go to for my next vacation?"

Re: Passport Index 2016

#58

Post by jsmthrowaway »

cloudjacker wrote: post #54
sevenless wrote: post #42

Is there a guide to multiple citizenship power leveling anywhere? Edit: A bit of munging from the web page later... For Americans and British/Western Europe, the passports you want are Burkina Faso, Benin and Senegal. They will bring your passport power level up by 13 points to 168 (American) and 170 (UK) and give you visa free access to Cote Divoire (Ivory Coast), Mali, Iran, Congo, Niger, Benin, Nigeria, Liberia, C…

yeah, they are called 'second passport' guides. assuming marriage is unfavorable and you don't want to pretend to be jewish, there are a couple of treaties you can take advantage of, typically old imperialist countries have guilt trips with their former south american or african colonies and have an easy citizenship path for citizens in those former colonies. But then those former colonies have really malleable gover…

> it isn't that expensive though. ~500,000 euros. Any homeowner in the bay area could do it.

I'm not sure whether to roll my eyes at over half a million dollars being "not that expensive" or the assertion that any Bay Area homeowner has that much liquidity to just toss at a Maltese passport. Unless you're suggesting selling the house to do it.

Re: Passport Index 2016

#59

Post by jpalomaki »

danra wrote: post #4

Anyone else reminded of Passport Please? Imagine having to recognize a fake passport by a slight difference in symbol/text format :)

I think I've once seen a service, which collected detailed information about the passports and other identification documents from all around the world and provided access to this over the Internet (probably in exchange for nice amount of $$$/€€€ per month).

I just can't remember the name of the service and also can't figure out appropriate search terms.

Re: Passport Index 2016

#60

Post by superuser2 »

Negitivefrags wrote: post #56
uniqueid wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reasoning about immigration laws is pointless because the foundation is based on magical thinking. There is no logic at all behind any of it. Citizenship by blood, by birthplace, by religion... then you look into getting a travel visa, or a work permit. There's nothing rational about any of it. Just endless lunacy. I probably shouldn't complain, as I'm eligible for four different citizenships... but when you look int…

There is nothing illogical about it. If all the worlds borders were open then economies would move to the average. Workers in poor countries would move to rich countries (because they have higher wages) until those countries wages had gone down, and the countries they left would have their wages go up due to the supply decrease in workers. It's complete logical self interest for country richer than the average to not…

Economies are not zero-sum.

The flow of capital and education to poor countries would increase their productivity (and thus wages and standard of living) while the increased supply of labor decreases prices in rich countries, and the new equilibrium would be strictly better for both sides.

Find a good economics textbook. (This is an issue where economists are in almost universal agreement, and almost universally opposed by politicians and the general public).

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