The Politically Incorrect Guide to Ending Poverty (2010) • Hacker News Board

Re: The Politically Incorrect Guide to Ending Poverty (2010)

#51

Post by andrepd » Sun, Jul 17, 2016, 5:21 PM UTC

adrianratnapala wrote: post #17

jkot wrote: post #8

> WHEN ROMER EXPLAINS charter cities, he likes to invoke Hong Kong. For much of the 20th century, Hong Kong’s economy left mainland China’s in the dust, proving that enlightened rules can make a world of difference. Charter cities are only possible because they concentrate capital, trade and workforce from mother country. It can not be done globally, entire China can not turn into Hong Kong

China's government is far from perfect, but ever since Deng took over, it has been been implementing policies that resemble British Hong Kong more than they resemble Maoist China -- and it's working just fine. Life is not a zero-sum game. Rich places get rich not by stealing the cream, but rather by being less evil and stupid as other places.

Assessing the success of your policies by comparing them with Maoist China is going for a rather low bar.

And is it working fine? Socially China has huge problems. I suggest you look beyond the GDP figure to assess whether a country is doing fine or not.

Re: The Politically Incorrect Guide to Ending Poverty (2010)

#52

Post by tim333 » Sun, Jul 17, 2016, 5:21 PM UTC

jkot wrote: post #8

> WHEN ROMER EXPLAINS charter cities, he likes to invoke Hong Kong. For much of the 20th century, Hong Kong’s economy left mainland China’s in the dust, proving that enlightened rules can make a world of difference. Charter cities are only possible because they concentrate capital, trade and workforce from mother country. It can not be done globally, entire China can not turn into Hong Kong

I'd say that's not the case with Hong Kong. It didn't rely much on capital or workers from the UK if that's what you mean by the mother country. It flourished mostly as a sensible governed base for Chinese entrepreneurs at a time then China was governed terribly. China has been turning into Hong Kong in many ways.

For example Guangzhou old http://www.angellam.com/ghostwife/ and recent http://skyrisecities.com/news/2016/01/viewfinder-guangzhou-s...

Re: The Politically Incorrect Guide to Ending Poverty (2010)

#53

Post by pbh101 » Sun, Jul 17, 2016, 5:22 PM UTC

api wrote: post #27

CPLX wrote: post #2

Shorter version: Create corporatist deregulated cities in corrupt third world countries and assume that rather than enriching multinationals via lax oversight the project will make poor people less poor. Hard to see what could go wrong with that plan.

Why third world? We have tons of ailing dying rust belt and Midwestern cities. Welcome to the St. Louis Free Economic Zone. My politics are weird though. I would combine it with a basic income and single payer health care. I think the best current system we could create would be a strong but non invasive social safety net combined with total at will employment and business deregulation.

Lower cost of living makes possible economic modes that the already relatively high economic floor in St. Louis makes prohibitive. Plus, the relative benefit of pouring X dollars into an area with lower per capita gdp is much higher: going from 20 cents to $2.20 a day is a much bigger life change than from $10 to $12.

Still could be helpful, and I think we do see it often in some form or another, but is also subject to regulatory arbitrage: two cities pitted against each other to provide the best situation for companies, or Walmart flexing their power to get more favorable deals.

Re: The Politically Incorrect Guide to Ending Poverty (2010)

#54

Post by rayiner » Sun, Jul 17, 2016, 5:37 PM UTC

CPLX wrote: post #2

Shorter version: Create corporatist deregulated cities in corrupt third world countries and assume that rather than enriching multinationals via lax oversight the project will make poor people less poor. Hard to see what could go wrong with that plan.

That's not what he's proposing at all. There is a whole paragraph in the article about how Romer is not a libertarian and recognizes the importance of rules. But some rules are good and some are bad. The electric utility example is a good one: price controls are very popular in third world countries, but just about the worst way to meet whatever objective you want.

Getting the government out of the way can also help in countries that have ingrained cultures of low-level corruption. One of the things that drove my dad to leave Bangladesh and move to the other side of the world was having to pay a bribe to a functionary for the phone company to hook up a new phone line in our house.

Re: The Politically Incorrect Guide to Ending Poverty (2010)

#55

Post by akvadrako » Sun, Jul 17, 2016, 5:42 PM UTC

If anyone is interested in the main webpage for the project, I think it's this:

http://marroninstitute.nyu.edu/programs/new-cities

Re: The Politically Incorrect Guide to Ending Poverty (2010)

#56

Post by wolfgke » Sun, Jul 17, 2016, 5:44 PM UTC

Another way to end poverty in the third world would be to convince the poor people simply not to breed anymore.

Re: The Politically Incorrect Guide to Ending Poverty (2010)

#57

Post by tomjen3 » Sun, Jul 17, 2016, 5:45 PM UTC

eropple wrote: post #18

briholt wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you. I just couldn't force myself to read through articles that are so padded with fluff.

What you're describing as "fluff", most people describe as "long-form writing." If you're reading purely for brrt-brrt-clank-insert-information-into-meatbot-head, you're missing out.

With few exceptions the long-form articles posted here are all normal articles padded with bullshit, not very in-depth articles. I wouldn't want to read them either.

Re: The Politically Incorrect Guide to Ending Poverty (2010)

#58

Post by tomjen3 » Sun, Jul 17, 2016, 5:48 PM UTC

jkot wrote: post #8

> WHEN ROMER EXPLAINS charter cities, he likes to invoke Hong Kong. For much of the 20th century, Hong Kong’s economy left mainland China’s in the dust, proving that enlightened rules can make a world of difference. Charter cities are only possible because they concentrate capital, trade and workforce from mother country. It can not be done globally, entire China can not turn into Hong Kong

Except that to cross into Hong Kong from China you need a special permit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frontier_Closed_Area

So they couldn't concentrate the Chinese workforce, whereas there is nothing to prevent that concentration just on the other side of the border.

Re: The Politically Incorrect Guide to Ending Poverty (2010)

#59

Post by BurningFrog » Sun, Jul 17, 2016, 5:57 PM UTC

cynicalkane wrote: post #42

jakub_h wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it's all a matter of your idiolect. It works, for some values of "works". Maybe it works for the macroeconomist studying national GDP growth rates? Sadly, there are also barbers and truck drivers.

In the countries under discussion, there aren't very many barbers and truck drivers. There are, however, a lot of starving people.

There is only a working class in a working economy.

Re: The Politically Incorrect Guide to Ending Poverty (2010)

#60

Post by IndianAstronaut » Sun, Jul 17, 2016, 5:59 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #36

The idea if carried out, likely would work, I think, but would be fraught with many issues centered around power and influence. This neocolonialist idea would likely not sit well with lots of the same people who have issues with capitalism and historical colonialism. The specter of European colonialism would be hard to escape. Then there is power and influence. These new cities would who up the host country and would…

>Baja becoming a US state

Baja is already well to do.

Try that with Chihuahua and maybe I can agree with these proposals.