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Cyberpower crushes coup

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Re: Cyberpower crushes coup

#41

Post by Zigurd »

sremani wrote: post #21
johnchristopher wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a very complicated honey trap to set up. And it's a failure on both the accounts that elected leaders should protect its people before things escalate and secondly elected leaders aren't supposed to set up trap like this in the first place.

Leaders democratically elected or otherwise are people seeking power, in general the democratic leaders do not cross a line, but Erdogan has proven he is not your "normal" elected leader. Nobody benefits from a failed coup like Erdogan, he now has the license to make Military in his image and the last pillar of secularism in Turkey is Kaput!

The coup failed, at least in part, because either the plotters and their allies were deluded about getting support from the population, or they had simply failed to prepare the ground by promoting secularism in the population. The other side of the coin is that the population sees secularism as the hallmark of a military that is co opted by liaisons with NATO and foreign intelligence agencies.

I see this latter failure as a general failure throughout the way the West interacts with Islamic nations. We've allowed secularism to become a tarnished brand, associated with military strong-men, instead of promoting it as the way to rights and education for women and freedom from religious totalitarianism.

Re: Cyberpower crushes coup

#42

Post by chippy »

T0T0R0 wrote: post #4

Cutting power? Hmmm, not so much. Batteries, generators and wi-fi, coupled with low-power operation modes for modern equipment, are going to be a quick answer to that strategy. Cutting power will buy less than a week of opportunity, and piss off LOTS of other ordinarily unmotivated, apolitical people.

>wi-fi

How does the wifi work? How does the internet work? By electricity, and buildings that run using electricity. My router can run from a battery, but if my ISP isn't working, or if the fibre cabinet is out of power....

Re: Cyberpower crushes coup

#43

Post by calibraxis »

Pica_soO wrote: post #26
CommanderData wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Turkish friend told me the Turks have been aware of attempts of destabilize their country. It was mostly the general population that came out and stopped the military coup. The Turks don't want another Syria or Libia where western backed rebels have made those places no-go countries. Turkey at least has a very friendly and thriving tourism eco system.

Yet they voted the same type of guy/party who ru(i)ned syria or libia to power? And enough of that evil western/jew outsiders scapegoats conspiracy theory's to avoid the realization that a whole culture produces failing governments on a regular basis. Those rebels are mainly backed up by local powers- Saudi arabia, Iran and yes turkey. Something in these cultures is unable to keep institutions and democracy alive. An…

Depressing as hearing people in the British Empire wondering why Indians don't like freedom.

Ironically, anyone who googles "Rojava" or "north kurdistan democracy" will discover people far ahead of the western powers in terms of democracy. Absolutely fundamental to understanding Turkey.

Furthermore, anyone can read things like: (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9ta...), or about US support of Saudi Arabia's dictatorship, etc. What's their real problem? Living on top of the oil.

Truly basic things, easier than anything in software.

Re: Cyberpower crushes coup

#44

Post by Pica_soO »

ohyes wrote: post #40
Pica_soO wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet they voted the same type of guy/party who ru(i)ned syria or libia to power? And enough of that evil western/jew outsiders scapegoats conspiracy theory's to avoid the realization that a whole culture produces failing governments on a regular basis. Those rebels are mainly backed up by local powers- Saudi arabia, Iran and yes turkey. Something in these cultures is unable to keep institutions and democracy alive. An…

Poverty, lack of education, and lack of opportunity would be my trio of undermining traits. It's a lot harder to convince someone with a 9-5 job, a family and a mortgage to overthrow the government. If we think of this as Islamic nationalism , it fits the pattern where things get really bad for common people, and someone rallies them against a perceived other in order to consolidate his own power. Be wary of anyone w…

Other parts of the world had the same loop and broke out of it. Money exists, and even poverty is not universal to the region. Why is there no middle-eastern- tiger state? Lack of Education is unconvincing, the Internet is now available for 20 years. Education is in parts of the region actively rejected as western influence. Late-Medieval Peasants where poor. Yet, in the citys the Renaissance could happen. There is not even this "aristocratic" attempt for improvement by "showing off" intellectual achievements or art showing in Saudi Arabia. No "big familys" trying to outdo one another with the fame of there universitys. And they could have done so.

http://www.theatlantic.com/video/index/491501/will-the-middl...

Re: Cyberpower crushes coup

#45

Post by Pica_soO »

calibraxis wrote: post #43
Pica_soO wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet they voted the same type of guy/party who ru(i)ned syria or libia to power? And enough of that evil western/jew outsiders scapegoats conspiracy theory's to avoid the realization that a whole culture produces failing governments on a regular basis. Those rebels are mainly backed up by local powers- Saudi arabia, Iran and yes turkey. Something in these cultures is unable to keep institutions and democracy alive. An…

Depressing as hearing people in the British Empire wondering why Indians don't like freedom. Ironically, anyone who googles "Rojava" or "north kurdistan democracy" will discover people far ahead of the western powers in terms of democracy. Absolutely fundamental to understanding Turkey. Furthermore, anyone can read things like: ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9ta... ), or about US support o…

I fell for the romantics of the revolutionary underdog early on in my life. By now i know, they will be corrupt and evil if they get to power- they just cant be it - yet.

The Kurd's will build another formidable dictatorship once there first state is really officially established, and the outside pressure is gone. There are power hungry psychopaths in every society, and not having plans for institutions that keep those at bay and busy will allow them to gain control.

Everyone can be a saint without woman and vine available.

Re: Cyberpower crushes coup

#46

Post by internaut »

JPKab wrote: post #3

Very interesting write-up. My concern with this coup is that the results of it failing are going to be worse for the Turkish people than if it had succeeded. https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/4t4ke5/pro_erdogan_is...

Agreed. I've already seen masses of pro-Gov supporters chanting all using the ISIS hand signal.

This shall not end well.

Re: Cyberpower crushes coup

#47

Post by internaut »

Zigurd wrote: post #39

Considering it was the response of the people that was a large factor in the coup failing, there's a lot of people here wishing the Deep State (a name which was coined to describe the situation in Turkey) succeeded, against the will of the people. But on other days, people here are concerned about interlinked security and military liaisons constituting a Deep State in their own countries, limiting autonomy and democr…

You're right, it is an interesting conundrum.

Re: Cyberpower crushes coup

#48

Post by Zigurd »

internaut wrote: post #47
Zigurd wrote: post #39

Considering it was the response of the people that was a large factor in the coup failing, there's a lot of people here wishing the Deep State (a name which was coined to describe the situation in Turkey) succeeded, against the will of the people. But on other days, people here are concerned about interlinked security and military liaisons constituting a Deep State in their own countries, limiting autonomy and democr…

You're right, it is an interesting conundrum.

What's sauce for the Turks is sauce for the Swedes. The Deep State in Sweden seems to make their security services and at least some prosecutors an arm of the US hunt for Assange. If you would support greater autonomy among US allies, so they behave less like vassals, it's hard to support the Deep State in Turkey.

Anyway, the Deep State has proven to be brittle, unreliable, and prone to blowback.

Re: Cyberpower crushes coup

#49

Post by j0rd »

T0T0R0 wrote: post #4

Cutting power? Hmmm, not so much. Batteries, generators and wi-fi, coupled with low-power operation modes for modern equipment, are going to be a quick answer to that strategy. Cutting power will buy less than a week of opportunity, and piss off LOTS of other ordinarily unmotivated, apolitical people.

I was in TH for latest coup, took under a couple hours to happen, less than a day to be enforced across country en mass.

And I live in the oppositions main stronghold when it happened.

Couple hours of lack of information is all you need, and is easiest way to cut all with a single switch.

If your power cut out right now, how long till you have net? Your neighbors? Your block? Weeks.

Re: Cyberpower crushes coup

#50

Post by j0rd »

j0rd wrote: post #49
T0T0R0 wrote: post #4

Cutting power? Hmmm, not so much. Batteries, generators and wi-fi, coupled with low-power operation modes for modern equipment, are going to be a quick answer to that strategy. Cutting power will buy less than a week of opportunity, and piss off LOTS of other ordinarily unmotivated, apolitical people.

I was in TH for latest coup, took under a couple hours to happen, less than a day to be enforced across country en mass. And I live in the oppositions main stronghold when it happened. Couple hours of lack of information is all you need, and is easiest way to cut all with a single switch. If your power cut out right now, how long till you have net? Your neighbors? Your block? Weeks.

YouTube video of start of TH 2014 coup.

Was rather brilliant to be honest.

https://youtu.be/BWoKTEPF5nk

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