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Google deletes artist’s blog, a decade of his work

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Re: Google deletes artist’s blog, a decade of his work

#431

Post by billhathaway »

madmax96 wrote: post #349
resu_nimda wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This statement has no relevance to the conversation -- it doesn't magically produce any obligation for Google to act differently than it does. It's true that no obligation is created under our current legal structure, but I think the statement still has relevance. Your stance reminds of me people that said, in the wake of the subprime mortgage crisis, "well those loans were legal and the people who defaulted were fre…

> It's true that no obligation is created under our > current legal structure, but I think the statement > still has relevance. Your stance reminds of me people > that said, in the wake of the subprime mortgage > crisis, "well those loans were legal and the people > who defaulted were free not to take them." Yes, that > is true, and we definitely would all be better off if > people took the accountability and persona…

Google provides a service called takeout[1] which lets users export their data from other Google services including Drive and Blogger.

[1] https://takeout.google.com/settings/takeout

Disclaimer: Alphabet employee, but not related to the takeout service.

Re: Google deletes artist’s blog, a decade of his work

#432

Post by wpietri »

wvenable wrote: post #430
wpietri wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At that scale it's impossible for you to be anything other than nothing to them. Even if that's the case, it is not impossible. It's just a choice that they made about how to structure things. The US government has hundreds of millions of citizens, but each one of those persons has rights, responsibilities, and privileges. The Catholic Church has hundreds of millions of members, but each one can have a personal rel…

Except neither of those things is "free".

All three need to pay the bills, but none of them charges for most of the services offered, so I'd say they are similarly free.

Re: Google deletes artist’s blog, a decade of his work

#433

Post by leonroy »

daveloyall wrote: post #133
leonroy wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fully agree with your comments, but I fear we're going in the wrong direction with the silo-ization of the web and the decline in open standards being ratified and used by large companies. Just look at Google's hostility towards maintaining standardized IMAP/SMTP support for third party mail clients. Google Apps and Office 365 would drop IMAP access to their services in a heartbeat if they could. Furthermore a lot of…

This is a gestalt response, but leonroy, I hope you don't mind if I put it here. You are talking about what I want to talk about: solving a problem. ... Someday, maybe today, we have to ask ourselves if email (Gmail) is a public utility. Suppose Dennis Cooper forgets his online banking password today. Does Google have a responsibility to somehow deliver the forgot password email? Did not the initial Gmail marketing s…

> Someday, maybe today, we have to ask ourselves if email (Gmail) is a public utility.

That's an interesting way of looking at it and you're right, Google's initial approach to marketing the product did frame it in that way.

I think it's going to become increasingly important for users to be able to pull their data out of a system and migrate it to another. Open APIs for pulling data out would be a great start and there are already nascent efforts to make migration of data from one cloud hosted service to another possible. For example Todoport here converts tasks between all the major task list managers like Asana, Wunderlist, Trello, etc.

https://todoport.com/index.html

In the above case of task managers I recently tried to switch from Things by Cultured Cloud to another service. The migration process was practically non-existent and I eventually ended up having to write a fairly large AppleScript to get my data out of Things into a CSV and then a Python script to push it up to my new Task List provider.

It was a messy few days of scripting to say the least!

Office365 to Google Apps or Dropbox to OneDrive in my opinion should be a one click migration and companies need to stop holding user's data to ransom to keep them on their services.

I personally think pressure to make these changes will have to come from outside the industry since it's clear that all the major players are basically trying to duplicate each other's features in an effort to ensure their users stay within their own platforms.

Re: Google deletes artist’s blog, a decade of his work

#434

Post by angry_octet »

astrodust wrote: post #418
kennywinker wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the fact that so many people are upset is indicative of the growing technological entitlement mentality A mentality Google fosters constantly with virtually all of their products. > You can get a 3 Terabyte backup drive today on Amazon The first words you see when you visit https://www.google.com/drive/ is "A safe place for all your files". > there are alternatives to using a hosting company Like what? Deeply techn…

Your house should be safe, secure, a place to store all your valuables, yet it's understood it could be robbed, destroyed by nature, or burn down by accident. You're responsible for making backups or taking out whatever insurance you think is reasonable for your data.

There is a difference between deliberate vs accidental deletion. This was not a random act. Thus is like the fire department coming and burning down your house.

Re: Google deletes artist’s blog, a decade of his work

#435

Post by esrauch »

falcolas wrote: post #280
paulcole wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because it's reasonable doesn't mean it's not censorship. Going a step further, there's nothing inherently wrong with censorship.

> Going a step further, there's nothing inherently wrong with censorship. So long as they're censoring the things you want them to censor. Of course, everybody would like something different to be censored, which is why it's better to err on the side of "no censorship". There's a reason librarians tend to fight against any form of censorship.

I think even the more politically minded librarians are OK with a private company deleting a blog that has child pornography images on it.

Re: Google deletes artist’s blog, a decade of his work

#436

Post by Arnt »

leephillips wrote: post #422
Arnt wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

6409 contains the same wording: "MAY modify submissions to ensure compliance with standards and site policy" and gives examples. The sections on header rewriting are essentially examples of what the document describes as "modifications that are often considered useful", they're not an exhaustive list. The only MUST NOT rule that concerns email address rewriting is about destination addresses.

Is it your opinion that a reasonable interpretation of 6409 is that a submission agent may falsify the sender of an email? Or create false associations between personal names and email addresses?

No RFC rule prevents that, and as far as I know no RFCs even try to define what constitutes a true or false association between a personal name and an email address. But RFC 6409 gives site policy unrestricted permission to allow or deny that.

(Well, almost unrestricted. The results have to be syntactically valid.)

Re: Google deletes artist’s blog, a decade of his work

#437

Post by Const-me »

That’s one of the reasons why I prefer desktop-based e-mail clients.

With a desktop client, an e-mail provider like gmail is able to terminate or suspend my account and prevent me from using my mailbox, but they can’t block me from accessing the e-mails I have already written or received.

Re: Google deletes artist’s blog, a decade of his work

#438

Post by falcolas »

esrauch wrote: post #435
falcolas wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Going a step further, there's nothing inherently wrong with censorship. So long as they're censoring the things you want them to censor. Of course, everybody would like something different to be censored, which is why it's better to err on the side of "no censorship". There's a reason librarians tend to fight against any form of censorship.

I think even the more politically minded librarians are OK with a private company deleting a blog that has child pornography images on it.

Unlikely, since if it was art (and not photographic porn), most of the librarians work in libraries with manga collections.

Re: Google deletes artist’s blog, a decade of his work

#439

Post by sctb »

67726e wrote: post #421
bigB wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A very very lazy human if you cant backup for 14 years....i hate mowing my lawn or doing my shopping but i have to do it. Going to work each day is a chore but somehow it happens...being lazy and human is the poorest excuse ive heard for not backing up over such a long period of time, and I deal with data loss whiners every day. If you dont want to lose it, make a copy, end of story.

Oh go fuck yourself you judgmental asshole.

Personal attacks are not OK on Hacker News.

Re: Google deletes artist’s blog, a decade of his work

#440

Post by Dylan16807 »

billhathaway wrote: post #431
madmax96 wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's true that no obligation is created under our > current legal structure, but I think the statement > still has relevance. Your stance reminds of me people > that said, in the wake of the subprime mortgage > crisis, "well those loans were legal and the people > who defaulted were free not to take them." Yes, that > is true, and we definitely would all be better off if > people took the accountability and persona…

Google provides a service called takeout[1] which lets users export their data from other Google services including Drive and Blogger. [1] https://takeout.google.com/settings/takeout Disclaimer: Alphabet employee, but not related to the takeout service.

And that's great! They just need to make it so when an account is shut down, there is a link to takeout, and it continues to work for 30 or 90 days.
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