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Coup attempt underway in Turkey

theatlantic.com

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Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#101

Post by cperciva »

r00fus wrote: post #57
cperciva wrote: post #52

Why did people support Hitler? Why do people support Trump? Why do people support Putin? Some people aren't very concerned with democratic principles; some people like the policy agenda and are willing to sacrifice democratic principles in order to get the policies they want; some people are gullible and believe scapegoat arguments; some people, particularly in times of insecurity, seek out a "strong man".

Or they see the coup as endangering the economic situation which could lead to more job-losses and the like. Let's be honest, would you support a coup in your country if that meant potentially years of unrest and economic crisis?

Right, that's a different question. I was trying to answer why people might support Erdogan; it's entirely reasonable for people to oppose a coup d'état despite not supporting the current government, for exactly the reasons you mention.

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#102

Post by ajmurmann »

pdx wrote: post #69
cperciva wrote: post #52

Why did people support Hitler? Why do people support Trump? Why do people support Putin? Some people aren't very concerned with democratic principles; some people like the policy agenda and are willing to sacrifice democratic principles in order to get the policies they want; some people are gullible and believe scapegoat arguments; some people, particularly in times of insecurity, seek out a "strong man".

I support Trump. I have no problem with Putin. I find your equivalence of those two men to Hitler to be naive or intentionally inflammatory. Even given this, I do not, however, intend to quit using tarsnap!

Even though I do not share your political views, I am very disappointed that you got down voted for your opinion. This is a very subjective topic and no one should be downvoted for holding non-violent opinions on topics like this where there is no objective right or wrong. If you had been unnecessarily profane or such that would be a different story, but this is just sad.

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#103

Post by fdsaaf »

gunn wrote: post #66
scarmig wrote: post #15

Anyone have a take on how successful this is likely to be? Both sides are claiming victory and that they've beaten the other side, naturally. Propaganda is everywhere. The only thing I figure is that since Erdogan is calling for a mass uprising in the streets, the status quo has him losing. He needs to radically change the dynamics of the situation to stay in power, and mass protests and displays of martyrdom in the…

Too early to call, but I'd put my money against the coup succeeding: Al Jazeera - "Turkey 1st army commander Umit Dundar on TV says army does not support coup". Assuming he's fully in charge there, that represents 120,000 army personnel. Also the opposition party is anti-coup and plenty of people are on the streets (presumably) in support of the government.

Right: either the coup loses quickly or Turkey enters an extended civil war, with the military divided against itself. There's still enough military support for the coup to bomb the parliament building into dust as I write this comment.

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#104

Post by aerovistae »

dang wrote: post #74
aerovistae wrote: post #47

Mods: Why do you delete news posts like this one? I understand you're trying to keep Hacker News tech/business/science focused, maybe, but don't you think major world events that are getting tons of interest should be allowed to float up to the front page on their own merit? If the users are interested in it, why is it being deleted? I feel like major events like yesterday's massacre in Nice or today coup d'état meri…

It's almost always users who flag these posts, and they're doing so in accordance with the HN guidelines. Most political stories are off topic. Occasionally we turn off the flags (like we've done here) because a political story has unusual intellectual interest or historical significance, or because it's so major that there's no keeping it off HN anyhow.

I appreciate being able to get responses like this from you so easily. So different from reddit's long history of the community feeling disconnected from the admins and unable to reach them.

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#106

Post by Animats »

tobias3 wrote: post #81
Animats wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Erdogan called for people to take to the streets, and within an hour, the airport and bridge were filled with thousands of people waving flags. (From pictures, all male.) That's popular support. The military is not attacking the crowds. The military presence was apparently not that big, concentrating on a few key spots. A coup has to succeed within the first few hours. Control must be established before oppositio…

What should they have done (additionally)? E.g. take out/over all civil communication infrastructure, such as ISPs, cellular networks, phone landlines? Then enforce the curfew with actual deadly force (since they are not a police force with riot gear...)?

Capture the Prime Minister and President. The coup leaders failed to do that.

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#107

Post by enraged_camel »

BukhariH wrote: post #51
watermelon59 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tangential, but why do people support Erdogan? From what I hear he's a terrible leader and moving towards a full dictatorship.

I think in the west we only see Turkey as Istanbul which happens to be the extremely liberal part of Turkey. The rest of the country is far more conservative so they don't see the clamping down on various freedoms as being a problem and on top of the Erdogan has actually really done a good job of developing the poorer regions of Turkey which were rife with high unemployments and low prospects. On top of that people b…

They came out against the coup once it became obvious that the coup was going to fail.

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#108

Post by mikeash »

cperciva wrote: post #52

Why did people support Hitler? Why do people support Trump? Why do people support Putin? Some people aren't very concerned with democratic principles; some people like the policy agenda and are willing to sacrifice democratic principles in order to get the policies they want; some people are gullible and believe scapegoat arguments; some people, particularly in times of insecurity, seek out a "strong man".

Note that the Nazis never had the support of the majority. It's a common myth that Hitler was elected, but he seized power at gunpoint after winning a minority of the legislature (albeit a sizeable minority).

Putin is similar, with electoral fraud substituting for naked force. Trump remains to be seen.

Erdogan, on the other hand, seems to legitimately enjoy the support of the majority. It may just be a quantitative difference, but it seems like an important one just the same.

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#109

Post by ZainRiz »

BukhariH wrote: post #51
watermelon59 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tangential, but why do people support Erdogan? From what I hear he's a terrible leader and moving towards a full dictatorship.

I think in the west we only see Turkey as Istanbul which happens to be the extremely liberal part of Turkey. The rest of the country is far more conservative so they don't see the clamping down on various freedoms as being a problem and on top of the Erdogan has actually really done a good job of developing the poorer regions of Turkey which were rife with high unemployments and low prospects. On top of that people b…

If the military takes over, then the opposition parties will loose power as well. It's also in their own interest to oppose to coup.

In fact, anyone who likes democracy should be opposed to it

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#110

Post by ZainRiz »

BukhariH wrote: post #51
watermelon59 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tangential, but why do people support Erdogan? From what I hear he's a terrible leader and moving towards a full dictatorship.

I think in the west we only see Turkey as Istanbul which happens to be the extremely liberal part of Turkey. The rest of the country is far more conservative so they don't see the clamping down on various freedoms as being a problem and on top of the Erdogan has actually really done a good job of developing the poorer regions of Turkey which were rife with high unemployments and low prospects. On top of that people b…

If the military takes over, then the opposition parties will loose power as well. It's also in their own interest to oppose to coup.

In fact, anyone who likes democracy should be opposed to it

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