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Coup attempt underway in Turkey

theatlantic.com

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Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#71

Post by dragonwriter »

watermelon59 wrote: post #37
BukhariH wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't be so sure about Erdogan losing power. Erdogan has an extreme amount of support within the country not just from the people but from the Turkish intelligence services & military aswell. A lot of people have elevated him to the same level as Ataturk. I'm about 80% sure Erdogan will manage to retain power from just what I know about Turkish politics - which isn't a lot to be honest. Early days right now but…

Tangential, but why do people support Erdogan? From what I hear he's a terrible leader and moving towards a full dictatorship.

Lots of people will support dictator whose dictates they favor over democracy where they might lose, especially if they fear democracy means compromise with our subjugation to people who wish them harm.

Democracy is an abstract ideal that people are less likely to support when it seems to threaten more basic and immediate physical need for themselves or those emotionally close to them.

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#73

Post by [deleted] »

Animats wrote: post #60
scarmig wrote: post #15

Anyone have a take on how successful this is likely to be? Both sides are claiming victory and that they've beaten the other side, naturally. Propaganda is everywhere. The only thing I figure is that since Erdogan is calling for a mass uprising in the streets, the status quo has him losing. He needs to radically change the dynamics of the situation to stay in power, and mass protests and displays of martyrdom in the…

No. Erdogan called for people to take to the streets, and within an hour, the airport and bridge were filled with thousands of people waving flags. (From pictures, all male.) That's popular support. The military is not attacking the crowds. The military presence was apparently not that big, concentrating on a few key spots. A coup has to succeed within the first few hours. Control must be established before oppositio…

[deleted]

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#74

Post by dang »

aerovistae wrote: post #47

Mods: Why do you delete news posts like this one? I understand you're trying to keep Hacker News tech/business/science focused, maybe, but don't you think major world events that are getting tons of interest should be allowed to float up to the front page on their own merit? If the users are interested in it, why is it being deleted? I feel like major events like yesterday's massacre in Nice or today coup d'état meri…

It's almost always users who flag these posts, and they're doing so in accordance with the HN guidelines. Most political stories are off topic.

Occasionally we turn off the flags (like we've done here) because a political story has unusual intellectual interest or historical significance, or because it's so major that there's no keeping it off HN anyhow.

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#75

Post by [deleted] »

gunn wrote: post #66
scarmig wrote: post #15

Anyone have a take on how successful this is likely to be? Both sides are claiming victory and that they've beaten the other side, naturally. Propaganda is everywhere. The only thing I figure is that since Erdogan is calling for a mass uprising in the streets, the status quo has him losing. He needs to radically change the dynamics of the situation to stay in power, and mass protests and displays of martyrdom in the…

Too early to call, but I'd put my money against the coup succeeding: Al Jazeera - "Turkey 1st army commander Umit Dundar on TV says army does not support coup". Assuming he's fully in charge there, that represents 120,000 army personnel. Also the opposition party is anti-coup and plenty of people are on the streets (presumably) in support of the government.

[deleted]

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#76

Post by Aelinsaar »

jvm wrote: post #23
whack wrote: post #10

"Modern Turkey was founded by Mustafa Kemal, a general in the Turkish Army who was later formally granted the surname “Ataturk,” or father of the Turks. Ataturk set about an aggressive program of modernizing and “Westernizing” the country, pushing religion to the margins, banning certain apparel like headscarves and fezes, and converting Turkish from Arabic to Latin script. But that secularism has always remained ten…

Sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

It's tortoises, all the way down.

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#77

Post by kiba »

whack wrote: post #10

"Modern Turkey was founded by Mustafa Kemal, a general in the Turkish Army who was later formally granted the surname “Ataturk,” or father of the Turks. Ataturk set about an aggressive program of modernizing and “Westernizing” the country, pushing religion to the margins, banning certain apparel like headscarves and fezes, and converting Turkish from Arabic to Latin script. But that secularism has always remained ten…

It's certainly a strong reminder that a democracy does not necessarily support liberalism like ours do in the West.

It has to be a core tenant that the population believes in.

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#78

Post by vacri »

einrealist wrote: post #46

It is bad that a (mostly) democratic elected government is (tried to be) removed this way. This will make it really difficult to work with whoever is in power, internationally. But Erdogan forced this on the military. They were told to stand down against ISIS and to fight a new impossible-to-win fight against the kurdish minority. I really hope the situation will somehow calm down. Otherwise we could have a new civil…

Turkey has a history of these kinds of coups. The reason why it hasn't happened earlier in Erdogan's reign is because Turkey is trying to join the EU, and military coups work against that as it means the state is not stable.

However, Turkey is interesting in that the military coups are usually conducted in the name of freeing the people, rather than oppressing them. Usually it's just naked power grabs.

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#79

Post by pdx »

r00fus wrote: post #57
cperciva wrote: post #52

Why did people support Hitler? Why do people support Trump? Why do people support Putin? Some people aren't very concerned with democratic principles; some people like the policy agenda and are willing to sacrifice democratic principles in order to get the policies they want; some people are gullible and believe scapegoat arguments; some people, particularly in times of insecurity, seek out a "strong man".

Or they see the coup as endangering the economic situation which could lead to more job-losses and the like. Let's be honest, would you support a coup in your country if that meant potentially years of unrest and economic crisis?

> would you support a coup in your country if that meant potentially years of unrest and economic crisis

Of course I would. Once you have children, you have a foot in the future. You look at what your counry will be like in 30 or 40 or 50 years. You don't focus so much on short term gains, but on long term gains.

If you feel that your country is heading down the wrong path, and altering that path will result in a better life for your children in 20 or 30 years at the expense of short term pain, of course you support altering the path of your country.

The people of the UK chose national sovereignty, at the risk of near term economic pain that the remainers shouted from the roof-tops, was sure to come. They did it anyway, because long term, they will be better off.

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#80

Post by selimthegrim »

Animats wrote: post #60
scarmig wrote: post #15

Anyone have a take on how successful this is likely to be? Both sides are claiming victory and that they've beaten the other side, naturally. Propaganda is everywhere. The only thing I figure is that since Erdogan is calling for a mass uprising in the streets, the status quo has him losing. He needs to radically change the dynamics of the situation to stay in power, and mass protests and displays of martyrdom in the…

No. Erdogan called for people to take to the streets, and within an hour, the airport and bridge were filled with thousands of people waving flags. (From pictures, all male.) That's popular support. The military is not attacking the crowds. The military presence was apparently not that big, concentrating on a few key spots. A coup has to succeed within the first few hours. Control must be established before oppositio…

Uh, wasn't some wannabe tinpot dictator or other found shot with that at his side while trying to use it? Doesn't bode well for its success...
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