Why Some Cuisines Are More Expensive Than Others • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Some Cuisines Are More Expensive Than Others

#21

Post by dragonwriter » Fri, Jul 15, 2016, 8:45 PM UTC

The demand-side explanation offered isn't ludicrous on its face, but I expect supply-side explanation is more the direct mechanism.

Sure, it has to do with economics, but not so much taste being driven by what people eat in rich and militarily powerful countries, but the fact that rich and stable countries don't have huge numbers of people that are very skilled in their cuisine emigrating to the US and opening restaurants, saturating the market and driving market-clearing prices down. Whereas Mexico, for instance, does.

Mexican food isn't cheap in the US because people look down on Mexico, it's cheap because there are so many people making it, and so many that could be making it.

Re: Why Some Cuisines Are More Expensive Than Others

#22

Post by CuriouslyC » Fri, Jul 15, 2016, 8:45 PM UTC

showerst wrote: post #6

mtw wrote: post #2

If the theory is right, then German, Swiss or Singaporean restaurants should be at the top of the list

Looks that got wrapped in 'Continental' in the Zagat numbers, which is pretty high. Anecdotally here in DC Germanic restaurants are almost all Biergarten type places that emulate 'street' food, and there isn't any fine dining to bring up the averages. I imagine that's true in most of the US. Fun outliers I can think of are Filipino and Laotian, which are both fairly expensive vs the country prestige, but of course th…

"Real" Filipino food is street food, and pretty unappetizing. Offal, adidas, sausage made of who knows what, betamax, roast/fried pig feet/ears, brain, etc, all served with a side of white rice and washed down with san miguel.

That being said, lechon, oxtail stew and sinigang are awesome, but not what most Filipino people eat on a regular basis.

Re: Why Some Cuisines Are More Expensive Than Others

#23

Post by arca_vorago » Fri, Jul 15, 2016, 8:46 PM UTC

Nadya wrote: post #12

ravenstine wrote: post #9

Japanese food is way overpriced nowadays, and hardly "japanese". You have to pay a ridiculous amount for actual Japanese food; anything mid-priced or below is covered in fried breading, mayonnaise, and even jalapenos. I'm not against "fusion" cuisine, but it sucks when there's so much of that it makes it difficult to get the real thing. Chinese food in America much cheaper because the ingredients are much less costly…

"Chinese" food in America isn't even "Chinese" food most of the time. It's "Oriental-inspired" at best. If I go to a Chinese restaurant in the U.S, I expect none of my dishes to be anything that would exist in a "typical" Chinese restaurant. Hell, most of the food is considered American food by Chinese people because it is so dissimilar to actual Chinese cuisine. If I go to a Japanese restaurant I can expect them to…

The secret to good Chinese food in the US is to find the hole in the wall Chinese grocery and make it yourself. I continually find amazing things at great prices.

I've grown to hate Americanized Chinese food. The best thing to wake your average eater up to this disparity is proper dim sum in my opinion.

Re: Why Some Cuisines Are More Expensive Than Others

#24

Post by beat » Fri, Jul 15, 2016, 8:55 PM UTC

donretag wrote: post #19

beat wrote: post #11

Something not really touched on here is how poor people's ethnic food can become fashionable and achieve high prices and desirability, often far outside its origins. Consider the recent bone broth craze, for example. Here in Minneapolis, the current trend is Southern food, often made by hipsters who grew up in Minnesota and have no real cultural ties to the South. For me, with my half-southern roots, it's kind of biz…

Lobster is another great example. It used to be a poor man's food and now it commands a high price.

Interestingly, lobster is pretty cheap now, due to abnormally high numbers of catch-sized lobsters (probably something to do with global warming). There's a restaurant here in town that specializes in basically lobster everything, and it's not out of line price-wise with standard Minneapolis hipster fare. If lobster prices ever go back up, they're toast. Their whole menu would skyrocket.

Re: Why Some Cuisines Are More Expensive Than Others

#25

Post by ferentchak » Fri, Jul 15, 2016, 9:01 PM UTC

beat wrote: post #18

CuriouslyC wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who lives and has traveled extensively in the south, I have to say that from a culinary standpoint the food is the best example of a true American cuisine. New England also has a cuisine with cultural heritage, but it isn't as quintessentially American as barbecue/southern food.

It's definitely more strongly regional and more distinctive than other places I've traveled in America. The only place that seems to compare for uniqueness is California.

What would be an example of a dish that is very uniquely Californian?

Re: Why Some Cuisines Are More Expensive Than Others

#26

Post by whack » Fri, Jul 15, 2016, 9:02 PM UTC

I feel like I'm stating the obvious here, but prices are set by a combination of both demand and supply. The article is focusing mostly on the demand side, but the supply factor makes a huge difference as well. There are significant immigrant populations from Mexico/China/India/Thailand, which means that someone opening a restaurant catering to these cuisines, can hire "ethnic chefs" at an affordable price.

In contrast, how big is the recently-French population in America really? And how many professional French cooks can one really find? Even if the demand for french food is much lower than the demand for Chinese food, the lack of supply alone will drive up the price.

Note also the second effect of the above. If someone wanted to open a Chinese restaurant, they can hire a affordable Chinese cook and market the restaurant as a mid-price restaurant. Or they can hire an expensive Chinese cook and market the restaurant as a high-end venue.

In contrast, if someone wanted to open a french restaurant, they don't have the option of hiring a cheap French cook. It's go big, or go home... which means that the pool of all French restaurants, is going to be heavily biased towards upscale, expensive restaurants.

If you simply take the average menu price of all zagat-rated French restaurants, and compare them to the average menu price of all zagat-rated Chinese restaurants, you're going to find a big difference in these average numbers, but a lot of it will simply be a result of the above price-bias. If you're trying to investigate people's demand/perception for a certain cuisine, the above results are going to be a highly distorted one.

Re: Why Some Cuisines Are More Expensive Than Others

#27

Post by imauld » Fri, Jul 15, 2016, 9:12 PM UTC

chronic81 wrote: post #17

deadmutex wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That includes a glass of wine + tip, and it has to be a Zagat rated restaurant in NYC. Also "average" implies mean, which could be slightly biased upwards due to having some high end restaurants in the list (compared to a median)

Average can be biased downward due to the large number of "cheap" places.

Your average Chinese take out in NY isn't Zagat rated so wouldn't be included.

Re: Why Some Cuisines Are More Expensive Than Others

#28

Post by beat » Fri, Jul 15, 2016, 9:14 PM UTC

ferentchak wrote: post #25

beat wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's definitely more strongly regional and more distinctive than other places I've traveled in America. The only place that seems to compare for uniqueness is California.

What would be an example of a dish that is very uniquely Californian?

I think of Californian food as a range of ingredients and stylistic flairs more than a particular dish. Avocadoes, lemon, leafy greens and seeds, an avoidance of deep-frying and greasy meats. It's much lighter and fresher than Midwestern or southern food.

Re: Why Some Cuisines Are More Expensive Than Others

#29

Post by Spellman » Fri, Jul 15, 2016, 9:14 PM UTC

ferentchak wrote: post #25

beat wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's definitely more strongly regional and more distinctive than other places I've traveled in America. The only place that seems to compare for uniqueness is California.

What would be an example of a dish that is very uniquely Californian?

Depends on how back you go I suppose.

In modern cuisine, if it's got avocados, it's Californian!

If you want to go much further back, you get Mexican food.

Re: Why Some Cuisines Are More Expensive Than Others

#30

Post by tptacek » Fri, Jul 15, 2016, 9:26 PM UTC

Animats wrote: post #8

From the operational end, some cuisines take much more kitchen effort than others. Pumping out carbs in pasta form is a cheap operation. French cooking is more labor-intensive. There are many Italian restaurant chains, but few French restaurant chains.

If you're making pasta yourself, which high-end places do, it's pretty labor-intensive. It requires an entire additional shift.