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Satya Nadella just fixed Microsoft’s biggest problem

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Re: Satya Nadella just fixed Microsoft’s biggest problem

#81

Post by rudolf0 »

cptskippy wrote: post #57
puranjay wrote: post #34

Try this: Google "Office 365" The first result just says "Email". The second result says "Office 365 login" I'm not an internet dunce, but this is just bad user-experience. Why not have a modern landing page that tells me a bit about the product, it's price and what I can expect from it? Why is the first result a login page? I've been using Google Docs almost exclusively for work now. I've ditched Word completely. I…

One of the problems Microsoft has that others don't is brand confusion. They like to ride on their own coat tails so distinct and unique products that are completely unrelated are often called the same thing. What do you call Microsoft's personal email client? Outlook. What do you call Microsoft's web based personal email service? Outlook. What do you call Microsoft's enterprise email client? Outlook. What do you cal…

Things get confusing when you deal with Skype for Business, too...

Re: Satya Nadella just fixed Microsoft’s biggest problem

#82

Post by JoeAltmaier »

ZenoArrow wrote: post #79
drinchev wrote: post #6

I was a Windows user for a long time. 5 years ago I switched to OS X, because I think it's closer to the deployment environment I use as a dev. However what OS X did ( when they killed the old one - MacOS 9 and rewrote the whole thing on UNIX based kernel ) was the single greatest move, which I think pays off even these days. This is what I hope should happen with Windows. They should decide on POSIX kernel and compl…

> "They should decide on POSIX kernel and completely rewrite most of it." What features do you want from POSIX that Windows doesn't already provide?

The point of POSIX is conformity, not extra features. Though I don't see how that fixes Windows either. It can already do many things more than POSIX. In fact most OSs support POSIX for application capture, but certainly don't depend upon it entirely.

Re: Satya Nadella just fixed Microsoft’s biggest problem

#83

Post by youdontknowtho »

amelius wrote: post #22

So by "becoming Sales and everyone else", they actually got bad at sales. Ironic.

Except that they have had many many very healthy quarters over the last decade as they became less and less relevant to the tech vanguard.

Don't f*ck it up, son...they clock a grip.

Re: Satya Nadella just fixed Microsoft’s biggest problem

#84

Post by cptskippy »

drinchev wrote: post #6

I was a Windows user for a long time. 5 years ago I switched to OS X, because I think it's closer to the deployment environment I use as a dev. However what OS X did ( when they killed the old one - MacOS 9 and rewrote the whole thing on UNIX based kernel ) was the single greatest move, which I think pays off even these days. This is what I hope should happen with Windows. They should decide on POSIX kernel and compl…

I believe what you're asking for is called the "Windows Subsystem for Linux" that they launched earlier this year.

The NT Kernel originally was POSIX compliant and there was a UNIX user-mode subsystem available called "Windows Services for UNIX". Unfortunately over the years the distinction between the NT Kernel and the Win32 subsystem eroded and Microsoft eventually dropped the Windows Services for UNIX subsystem around 2008.

With Vista however, the MinWin initiative took off to extricate the Win32 Subsystem from the NT Kernel. This was carried forward with 7 and completed for 8. It's because of this separation that they were able to share the same Kernel in Phone, RT, Desktop and Server OSes. It's also how WinRT and UWP apps can run on Phone, RT, Desktop and Server because they do not rely on the Win32 subsystem to operate.

The Windows Subsystem for Linux is Microsoft's new Linux (not UNIX) user-mode subsystem.

Re: Satya Nadella just fixed Microsoft’s biggest problem

#85

Post by JoeAltmaier »

JustSomeNobody wrote: post #44
drinchev wrote: post #6

I was a Windows user for a long time. 5 years ago I switched to OS X, because I think it's closer to the deployment environment I use as a dev. However what OS X did ( when they killed the old one - MacOS 9 and rewrote the whole thing on UNIX based kernel ) was the single greatest move, which I think pays off even these days. This is what I hope should happen with Windows. They should decide on POSIX kernel and compl…

Long ago Bill Gates always pushed for backwards compatibility. That carries on today. So until Microsoft is completely gone, Windows will always carry with it the cruft of generations past.

Its changing. Win phones, surface, WinRT did a lot of restructuring.

Re: Satya Nadella just fixed Microsoft’s biggest problem

#86

Post by youdontknowtho »

aabbccdd wrote: post #71
UK-AL wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft have tons of tools for private cloud? Including the upcoming ability deploy the azure platform to your own machines.

Tons of tools? Dare to mention any? Upcoming ability - any official announcements?

The new shielded VM's feature of Hyper-V is far and away the coolest thing that's happened in virtualization in a while. Look into it. It's pretty freakin awesome.

Re: Satya Nadella just fixed Microsoft’s biggest problem

#87

Post by dbgllm »

drinchev wrote: post #29
orf wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suggesting a rewrite of something as important as the NT kernel is ignorant at best. I think Bash on Windows is a great compromise.

I think software is going to the direction of emulation anyway. At this point you have platforms like Electron, which run in a browser environment. Java software which runs inside JVM. Now there's even linux sub-system inside windows, etc. I think there is a way to do it the other way around. MS put effort in creating something similar to WINE and make a special "Windows POSIX", which let's say for the next decade is…

I don't think your kernel of choice is of direct interest here; I'm fairly certain what you're interested in is access to your familiar tools, which the "Bash on Ubuntu on Windows" system would potentially provide.

As for a POSIX sub-system on Windows, well there once existed such a system that was near-compliant, but MS stopped supporting it a few years back. As for Wine, I think cygwin fulfills a similar role.

Anyway, you want your tools. You might even want your familiar filesystem and its hierarchy. I think the primary reason Microsoft deemed it worth it to implement Bash on Ubuntu on Windows was to provide webdevs access to the same tools they had on osx/linux.

All in all, I think a bit of reading on these subjects would help, because I think you're confusing the kernel with the userland.

Note: I'm faily young and inexperienced, and when I heard the "Bash on Ubuntu on Windows" announcement, I didn't really know what the meant. But learning about these bits on wikipedia/various blogs was certainly interesting.

Re: Satya Nadella just fixed Microsoft’s biggest problem

#88

Post by illumin8 »

tdkl wrote: post #47
grandalf wrote: post #40

> Microsoft’s Outlook iOS app is probably the best mail client on iOS I used it about a year ago and it was horrible, many broken features and fairly slow and unresponsive, and also exceptionally poor UX (like office for web).

It also stores your email on their servers to get push messages, which no UI can fix.

Worse than that, it stores your email credentials on their servers, so it can retrieve email on your behalf. Terrible, terrible security. I wouldn't be surprised if the passwords are stored in cleartext in the database.

Re: Satya Nadella just fixed Microsoft’s biggest problem

#89

Post by youdontknowtho »

known wrote: post #69

Writing software(GNU) != Selling software(Microsoft/Oracle) != Selling support(RedHat) != Selling solutions(IBM) != Selling gadgets(Apple) != Selling advertisements(Google/Facebook/Twitter) != Selling consulting(Accenture) != Body shopping(TCS/Infosys/Wipro/HCL/Cognizant)

SO, writing software is a distinct activity from not writing software? That's really thought provoking. It's also different that water skiing. Mountain climbing. Lint rolling. Resting quietly. Para-sailing.

There are also people who write software at all of those places...Which isn't distinct from writing software at all.

Re: Satya Nadella just fixed Microsoft’s biggest problem

#90

Post by pdkl95 »

gnoway wrote: post #18
Gravityloss wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is the NT kernel so important? It hasn't touched my life much in about eight years, private or professional. Nokia thought Symbian was very important too.

Unless you're OK with breaking compatibility with all existing Windows apps - most of which you have no control over - rewriting the kernel as a POSIX thing is going to look a lot like 'bash on windows' in reverse. You'd have to have some kind of shim layer to translate all the old system calls, so most everyone's existing software is going to be slower and there will be bugs, etc. Including your own, since Windows i…

> 'bash on windows' in reverse

That would be "wine", which has worked surprisingly well several years.

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