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Our Handbook is open source: here's why

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Re: Our Handbook is open source: here's why

#91

Post by elliotec »

sytse wrote: post #74
bisby wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From just above: "Interestingly, more and more of my colleagues (and myself included) are moving house to their favorite places to live." How does pay vary with location changes? If I live in SF now, and get that pay, then move, do I wind up getting paid less? If I start in a small town with low expenses, does that mean I can never afford to move to SF?

That is indeed what is difficult. Any time you move metro regions we'll need to negotiate about the compensation. And if you're moving from an expensive to an affordable region your compensation will be lower.

This kind of removes a lot of the draw about being remote - you'll get a pay cut if you move?!

Re: Our Handbook is open source: here's why

#92

Post by elliotec »

mohsinr wrote: post #90
elliotec wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pay is not even close to competitive. I've been through the interview process and they wouldn't budge on what would be a 40% cut for me. Very disappointing considering how amazing everything else is. I felt a bit insulted, considering their inflexible rate was several thousand dollars lower than my first dev job.

Was it due to your location? I read they base salary offer on applicant's location... something I am feeling very undemocratic lol... I was idealist thinking I could get paid as per my skills, talent, effort, contribution etc... hell with my location, I could be in India , then in Indonesia and next year working from Mars :-)

I felt the same way, but then you get a pay cut when you go to Mars, and another when you go to Indonesia. If the max rate they told me was based on my location, I'd be shocked if they are even be able to find a mid level dev within several hundred miles of me.

Re: Our Handbook is open source: here's why

#93

Post by morgante »

sytse wrote: post #50
morgante wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't mind me asking, is the pay competitive? I definitely like the ethos of GitLab, but unfortunately most of the remote-only companies I've interviewed with just don't offer salaries competitive with either SV/NYC tech or what I can make doing remote contracting.

Our pay depends on your location. So if you're currently charging an SF rate without the expenses of living there you're better off.

Thank you for being transparent. You've saved both of us some time.

Re: Our Handbook is open source: here's why

#94

Post by Trundle »

chadmalchow wrote: post #49
Trundle wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you guys focusing on ramping up direct sales yet? Emailed Michael earlier in the year and he said that he's focusing on your reseller program at the moment and to get back to him in August to see where you're at. Still very much on my calendar but I figured it can't hurt to check now if you're offering answers!

We are hiring. For the APAC market we are selling through partners at this time. However we are a remote only company and if we find the right people that can do the job, their location does not matter. I encourage you to apply at https://about.gitlab.com/jobs/account-executive/ .

Thanks for getting in touch with me, I'll be sure to!

Re: Our Handbook is open source: here's why

#95

Post by sytse »

elliotec wrote: post #91
sytse wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is indeed what is difficult. Any time you move metro regions we'll need to negotiate about the compensation. And if you're moving from an expensive to an affordable region your compensation will be lower.

This kind of removes a lot of the draw about being remote - you'll get a pay cut if you move?!

You get a pay cut if you move to a less expensive metro area. And you have to contact us before you move. But so far we have always been able to make it work. I think most of our team thinks it is great that you do not have to switch jobs when you need to move because of family, the job of your partner, or some other reason.

Re: Our Handbook is open source: here's why

#96

Post by sytse »

elliotec wrote: post #89
sytse wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our pay depends on your location. So if you're currently charging an SF rate without the expenses of living there you're better off.

Who decides what an SF rate is though? SF rates are highly variable, like in any other city.

We try to set rates per metro area so people can move in the metro area without renegotiating. We're still working on the framework, please see https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TEHZTvg9jxlwvKvsc5fm2FvZ...

Re: Our Handbook is open source: here's why

#97

Post by webmaven »

jobvandervoort wrote: post #46
jack-ess wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No junior jobs, eh?

We have a few junior team members [0]. If you think you would make a great fit in one of the roles, but at a more junior level, I urge you to still apply. The respective hiring manager can let you know whether it's possible to fulfill the same role as a junior. [0]: https://about.gitlab.com/team/

> [0]: https://about.gitlab.com/team/

That team page has very few women listed, not to mention women in engineering roles.

Do you see this as an issue, and if so, what steps are you taking?

Re: Our Handbook is open source: here's why

#98

Post by fapjacks »

elliotec wrote: post #88
morgante wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't mind me asking, is the pay competitive? I definitely like the ethos of GitLab, but unfortunately most of the remote-only companies I've interviewed with just don't offer salaries competitive with either SV/NYC tech or what I can make doing remote contracting.

The pay is not even close to competitive. I've been through the interview process and they wouldn't budge on what would be a 40% cut for me. Very disappointing considering how amazing everything else is. I felt a bit insulted, considering their inflexible rate was several thousand dollars lower than my first dev job.

Right. It's pretty ridiculous that they don't put that front and center, but that "the low pay issue" has to bubble up somewhere in the comments. I find it rather distasteful to lean on open source as the primary reason for paying engineers less. It's plain from comments here and elsewhere that the main pressure is to keep the burn rate low. Which is fine, that's not a dumb thing to want to keep under control. But as we used to say in the Army, you can shine a turd but it's still a turd. And I mean no offense to Gitlab. I use Gitlab in production and think it's great software. All the more reason to pay the engineers well for their excellent work.

Re: Our Handbook is open source: here's why

#99

Post by fapjacks »

kriro wrote: post #9

Pretty interesting that you use "1password (PeopleOps vault)". I guess I never thought about using PW-vaults in a corporate setting. Seems like an interesting approach (compared to some alternatives I know that don't work well).

Especially considering there is no native Linux client. They say that's explicitly why your choice for development machine is one of the following: 1) Macbook.

Re: Our Handbook is open source: here's why

#100

Post by mohsinr »

elliotec wrote: post #92
mohsinr wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was it due to your location? I read they base salary offer on applicant's location... something I am feeling very undemocratic lol... I was idealist thinking I could get paid as per my skills, talent, effort, contribution etc... hell with my location, I could be in India , then in Indonesia and next year working from Mars :-)

I felt the same way, but then you get a pay cut when you go to Mars, and another when you go to Indonesia. If the max rate they told me was based on my location, I'd be shocked if they are even be able to find a mid level dev within several hundred miles of me.

Pay cut will be awkward. Thank you for adding more info, so offer was not even matched to your location...
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