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The Fight for the “Right to Repair”

smithsonianmag.com

261–270 of 325 posts

Re: The Fight for the “Right to Repair”

#261

As someone who came of tinkering age in the early 70s and spend lots of time taking apart and repairing old machines, I wish to express another concern. How do we expect to hook the next generation of engineers if there is no opportunity to tinker as a child? For me that spark (excuse the pun) definitely came from those early "break it/fix it" sessions. Is tinkering going to be relegated to playing with the public AP…

It's not just tinkerers who suffer. At our university research group we're doing ultra high speed OCT imaging research. Without going into full details, let it just sink in that were're fully saturating two PCI-E x8 Gen3 toward GPU cards in a continuous stream. Since CUDA-5 there's an API that allows direct DMA between the GPU and whatever device you can write drivers for.

This opens an interesting opportunity: Put the ADC and the GPU into an external PCI-E enclosure with a PCI-E crossbar switch (PLX/Avago makes those). Unfortunately there are no existing enclosures that support the number of slots and the PCI-E generation required for that.

But what the heck, we've got all the tools here required to design, and more importantly troubleshoot such a design. I've got a 4ch 35GHz bandwidth Oscilloscope at my disposal here and there's be a >60GHz one at the lab soon, too. Also all the kinds of probes required. And being a radio amateur with interest in microwave operation there's also the technical background. A quick search at Mouser and Digikey reveals, that they even have all the right ICs in stock. So all I need is electrical specifications for what to keep in mind, pin outs, and some programming manuals for the controller.

Now there are two options to go about this: Using External-PCI-E connection (adapters for which for some reason have become hard to come in the past 2 years) or Thunderbolt. So I thought, hmm, it's worth a try getting in touch with them (heck, some guy at HN actually suggestest I should get in touch with the Thunderbolt groups). Here's the reply in verbatim:

    > Dear Wolfgang,
    > 
    > Thank you for your interest in Thunderbolt™ technology.  Due to resource
    > constraints we are not able to approve Individuals or institutions to sign
    > the Thunderbolt Technology License that is required for access to Thunderbolt
    > Confidential documentation.  As our resources improve we hope to be able to
    > allow individuals or educational access.
    > 
    > You may find the attached Intel Developer Forum presentation from August 2015 helpful.
    > 
    > If there is a specific Thunderbolt product you are trying to bring to market please let us know.
    > 
    > Thank you and best regards,
    > Thunderbolt Admin
Yeah, thank you very much.

It always puzzles me why hardware companies, who want to _sell_ their stuff or proliferate their newest kind of technology makes it so awfully hard for independent developers, engineers, researchers and tinkerers to actually make use of it in their products.

As far as I can tell there's not really much on the Thunderbolt market available right now. A few storage enclosures, NICs, single slot PCI-E enclosures and the occassional novelty audio interface. You can, in fact, enumerate all existing products that use Thunderbolt technology on the Thunderbolt website itself.

In a broader sense the same problems also hold for PCI-E and PCI (fortunately the specifications for those float around the web, you can find them if you want to) and "standard" links like DisplayPort and HDMI.

And apart from the whole hardware building aspect, there's also the software aspect. Hey you various printer and scanner manufactureres out there (I'm looking at you EPSON, Canon, Samsung, Brother, Kyocera, etc.) you want me to buy your stuff. So how about you also tell me how to talk to it, once I've bought it. You know, drivers are not really terribly complicated things. Yes I understand you may have some secrets in your drivers. I don't want to get the sources to _your_ drivers, I want to write my own. Oh I could damage my hardware you say? What problem is that for you, you should be happy, I might buy another pice from you. I think it has to do with the fact, that you're selling the very same piece of hardware in different feature editions for different prices and you don't want to tell people that plainly.

/rant

Re: The Fight for the “Right to Repair”

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think I saw an earlier HN thread that suggested that they might put occupants at greater risk of kidnapping because the cars could refuse to take evasive actions that endanger or injure a kidnapper What alternative would a human take? Would they kill the kidnappers by driving over them?

I think a human would drive over a kidnapper. Say your car is bullet proof. A man in a ski mask wielding a machine gun jumps in front of the road and orders you to stop. You refuse, he starts shooting at your car as you get near him (this is why I made your car bullet proof, to keep you alive but unequivocally demonstrate clear and present danger to you). In such a scenario, if your only escape route is over the dead…

Wow, where did the machine gun come from!

Re: The Fight for the “Right to Repair”

#263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More likely than one might want to think. A car traveling the same direction swerves into your lane, crowding you off the road. Does your self-driving car allow the collision and push the offending car back in order to hold your lane? Or does it avoid the collision and run you off the road? (As a person who drives in the mountains, this could have deadly results. If you live in the plains of Kansas, maybe not so much…

> Does your self-driving car allow the collision and push the offending car back in order to hold your lane? Or does it avoid the collision and run you off the road? Neiter of those. The first and foremost rule in traffic is to act predicatable. And the only predictable reaction to something blocking your way is to BREAK! Seriously, what is it always with people that makes them think that a change in direction (swerv…

Not always. I've been in a scenario where I swerved into an open breakdown lane because someone swerved into my lane at high speed to avoid running into the car in front (because they had slammed on their brakes after being inattentive). Lots of swerving high-speed vehicles but no one ended up colliding.

But I agree as a general rule. A lot of this trolley problem stuff is way overblown. Far and away the best action in the vast majority of cases is going to be to slam on the brakes. Even if someone or something still collides, the energy is going to be reduced and therefore the consequences of the collision.

I certainly don't want my car flying off the pavement to avoid hitting something on the road without a really good model of why that's a safer approach for me.

Re: The Fight for the “Right to Repair”

#264

I don't really understand this fight. Why not let the market sort it out? I for one stopped buying Macbooks as soon as they were being glued shut. My 2011 MBP can be opened, I put 16 GB of RAM in there and a TB SSD. I know Apple thinks it is ridiculous [0] to use a 5 yr old PC but the thing is blazing fast. I'll never buy a laptop that is unusable in 5 years time when there are also models with up to 3 m.2 slots avai…

I agree whole heatedly.

But let's not be naive, the fight happens because the some people want the government to step it and make some of those things illegal. Be it to turn illegal to modify the car you own, or illegal to not allow to modify your electronics.

People don't just have views on that, they want to force their views on others.

Re: The Fight for the “Right to Repair”

#265

No need for a "Right" to repair. What is needed is abolishment of intellectual property laws which allow companies to claim what you think is your legitimately purchased property. The core problem with intellectual property is that it trumps physical property. Companies shouldn't be forced by government to make repairable devices. A better way would be some sort of "Repair Coalition" of consumers and companies which…

> it trumps physical property

That's the point of invented rights in a nutshell, to weaken the real actual rights, while bribing people into the illusion that they are better off that way.

Re: The Fight for the “Right to Repair”

#266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like the steering wheel that's deployed on all public roadways right now? I'm struggling to see the substantial difference between "self driving car with modified software should be disallowed because safety" and "manually driven car should be disallowed because safety". The former is still strictly safer.

> The former is still strictly safer. I find this to be an absolutely ridiculous statement. Software as we know it today is incredibly brittle. What will eventually be put on the road as fully autonomous vehicular control software will have been HEAVILY QA'ed, and will be continuously QAed by telemetry. Random people modifying that software invalidate any proof-of-safety from the upstream QA and monitoring processes.

Random people manually driving their cars are "modifying" their input as well.

You have drunk drivers, texting drivers, distracted drivers....

The human attention span is incredibly brittle as well.

In terms of QA'ing a manual driver in the US? You take a 10 minute driving test when you're 16 and you're licensed to drive for the rest of your life.

Re: The Fight for the “Right to Repair”

#267

I don't really understand this fight. Why not let the market sort it out? I for one stopped buying Macbooks as soon as they were being glued shut. My 2011 MBP can be opened, I put 16 GB of RAM in there and a TB SSD. I know Apple thinks it is ridiculous [0] to use a 5 yr old PC but the thing is blazing fast. I'll never buy a laptop that is unusable in 5 years time when there are also models with up to 3 m.2 slots avai…

Because not everyone is perfectly informed about the consequences of their purchase at the time they make the purchase. I'm glad you do your research, but with this kind of law, you wouldn't need to do that research and could instead spend your time doing something you enjoy. Similarly, you don't need to research your grocery store's meat selling policies to ensure you're not getting rotten meat.

Re: The Fight for the “Right to Repair”

#268
post #183
post #135

This was a hugely frustrating thing for me recently. I picked up a used Pioneer AVR on eBay a few years ago and had no issues with it until I decided to plug my wife's older plasma television in because my main TV decided to take up an unusual smoking habit. It refused to connect to the new TV, indicating an HDCP error, despite working when plugged directly in to any of the attached devices. A quick google search yie…

Capitalism is the art of getting as much money out of you as possible without getting a class action lawsuit. We hope most Pioneers customers do the same as you but I bet they don't, they think a year is enough value for the product. Pioneers work is to further reduce the time their products are expected to function.

Nearly sent milk out my nose with your quote, though it got me thinking.

Planned obsolescence, as highlighted by the article, is certainly nothing new but it seems to be an ever growing trend in parts of the CE space that once valued reliability. As customers have become more used to replacing expensive gadgets (smartphones/PCs come to mind) every few years because the new ones are faster and more capable, they've begun to value reliability less. The problem is that there are large and growing segments in the space that don't warrant replacement so frequently. My AVR is seven years old, does 9.1 audio, decodes every major format[0] and supports all of the HDMI features of the television I have plugged in to it. My 1080p plasma television is among the final generation, doesn't suffer from screen burn despite being used 90% of the time for gaming, produces a better picture (color and screen consistency) than the LCD it replaced and is nearly impossible to find a "new" replacement for. It was also among the least expensive 1080p televisions available at the time it was purchased since plasma was on its way out.

Arguments that "these things are much more complex to repair these days" are no longer true with the hundreds of YouTube videos, web sites and forums dedicated to repairing products so it really does appear to be manufacturers imposing artificial constraints on product lifetime in order to encourage high repair fees or premature replacement with newer models in categories of products that don't have a natural replacement cycle beyond the failure cycle.

The ability to repair a device and its reliability is quickly becoming a required feature in this home. Assuming it's a product I won't replace until it fails, this experience has caused me to research products over a certain price more thoroughly to identify those with a large community behind them, a long warranty, and a flexible repair policy.

[0] Nearly every new device I plug in causes the receiver to jump to PCM mode because the decoders are being built in to the devices. Considering the ability to decode every common audio format was a major feature I purchased it for, and a feature that would cause me to replace it, it's going to remain in my living room even longer if it doesn't fail. Unless I replace the television with something that requires an HDMI spec beyond what the device can handle (and I don't see getting a 4K TV for that room, so that's safe), grow ears that can discern a tenth channel (or the room changes in some unexpected way allowing a tenth or eleventh speaker to fit somewhere), or end up buying four more devices to plug in to it, it will be replaced only when it fails.

Re: The Fight for the “Right to Repair”

#269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "right" to repair one's own stuff is as made-up as the "right" to encumber products with repair-resistant features. This is not a question of what's etched into stone tablets somewhere, it's a question of what we value as society. When what people want to do conflicts with what companies want people to do, who gets to win? The simplistic answer is to just throw your hands up and "let the market decide." But the m…

All rights are manmade. Rights are social constructs. I'm not looking for stone tablets anywhere. But simply saying that a right exists does not make it so. If that is all it takes, please excuse me for a moment while I go declare, and then exercise, my right to rob a bank. Like any social construct, a right exists when it is broadly accepted as a fact and is operational within society. It helps if you make it a law,…

> Rights are social constructs.

What you're saying is that might makes right(s), pun intended. And that's just as silly as it gets, that's the reason people get all sort of authoritatians systems...people decided to call them witches and kill them so they were on the right...

Re: The Fight for the “Right to Repair”

#270
post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The two are not mutually exclusive. I don't think gluing everything together is purely engineering decision.

Glue allows them to attach battery to the body. Macbook's battery is not single piece, rather is few batteries connected with each other shaped in a ways that allow them to fill all empty space within the body.

Some other current models achieve this in a different manner, with a molded cage that holds the individual batteries in place throughout the body but can be removed.
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