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The Fight for the “Right to Repair”

smithsonianmag.com

41–50 of 325 posts

Re: The Fight for the “Right to Repair”

#41

This is carburetor nostalgia, from a time when everything was human scale and adjustable. Look at how chips are stacked and interconnected within packages in modern design[1], that trend will only intensify. Software is also getting more complex, with deep learning the system develops its own if/thens. [1] http://img.koreatimes.co.kr/upload/news/070905_p10_hynix.jpg

How do they make that?! Don't the interconnects short?

Using a modern wire bonding machine

Re: The Fight for the “Right to Repair”

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is pretty likely that the full self driving system will be the thing that gets licensed. If that were the case, your exploited systems would not be licensed for operation on public roads. This can be completely orthogonal to whether you are able to modify the vehicle or not.

How would you detect these changes in a licensed system if you are allowed to modify the vehicle? If you do behavior based testing - the person will just hide the features behind a backdoor so the testing looks normal. If you do some type of checksum based testing, you have defacto made modification illegal, and it is bypassed by doing a "factory reset" prior to the licensing check, and loading the modified software…

I'm talking about the likely legal framework that the systems would be implemented against. The technical details would of course be important.

But for instance, other systems could record and report vehicles with anomalous behaviors.

Re: The Fight for the “Right to Repair”

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is pretty likely that the full self driving system will be the thing that gets licensed. If that were the case, your exploited systems would not be licensed for operation on public roads. This can be completely orthogonal to whether you are able to modify the vehicle or not.

How would you detect these changes in a licensed system if you are allowed to modify the vehicle? If you do behavior based testing - the person will just hide the features behind a backdoor so the testing looks normal. If you do some type of checksum based testing, you have defacto made modification illegal, and it is bypassed by doing a "factory reset" prior to the licensing check, and loading the modified software…

At some level, making an outward show of being a good person and being a good person are indistinguishable.

Re: The Fight for the “Right to Repair”

#45

A lot of issues surrounding the move to make anything and everything a "Service" are starting to become very clear. The issues with IoT devices being bricked, Tesla 'ownership', and so on really do need scrutiny from a functional body with a hint of the public's interest at heart.

> The issues with IoT devices being bricked, Tesla 'ownership', and so on really do need scrutiny from a functional body with a hint of the public's interest at heart.

Oh great, another bureaucracy.

Why should manufacturers be forced to make their products repairable by users? Why don't they have the right to make a non-repairable product, and let the market decide whether or not it succeeds? If people really want repairable products, some company will be able to make money by selling them. The market is an excellent way to track consumer preferences -- far better than a bureaucracy telling companies how to make their products.

Re: The Fight for the “Right to Repair”

#46
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the ethical question is greatly overblown. The odds of being in a situation where there's any sort of ethical choice to make are so remote as to not really be worth considering. 99.9999% of the time, the correct choice when faced with an impending crash will be to brake as hard as the driving surface allows and steer to avoid obstacles as much as possible. In any case, tinkering and commons already intersect…

> I think the ethical question is greatly overblown. Not at all. One programmer is going to make choices that affect ~ a billion vehicles one day, so something that doesn't happen 99.9999% per hour will happen 100 times per hour. And it's going to be more mundane things, like programming the speed limit 1 mph slower results in 500 less deaths per year, or using drm/copyright to stop poor people from getting driving s…

"Per hour" is rather ridiculous. I'm talking about per crash. There are a couple million vehicle crashes in the US each year, so if it really is 99.9999%, that's two or three ethical crises per year here. Among a billion vehicles it would be maybe ten per year. And honestly I'd be surprised if it's that many. When have you ever heard of a crash where there was any kind of ethical dilemma in the response? People keep imagining scenarios, but I've never heard of one happening in real life.

As for speed limits and such, I'm talking about the car's ethical choices in crashes, not the ethics of the programmers.

Re: The Fight for the “Right to Repair”

#47
we shall, as a society, realise that software is some cross between literacy and legislation and that the right to read (and write back) software that affects us is fundamental to the good operation of society, and we will advance together.

Or we won't and we will end up like North Korea, pretending reality is somewhere it's not.

Nature is not going to care if we don't board the clue train.

Re: The Fight for the “Right to Repair”

#48

John Deere is attempting to make sales of their tractors 'leases' to enforce their ban on self repair: http://www.wired.com/2015/04/dmca-ownership-john-deere/

That article doesn't mention leasing, but that seems like a reasonable compromise. If you, as a manufacturer, are hell-bent on locking down your firmware and parts supply, then you have to stop pretending that you're selling anything. Only providing leasing is a way to be honest with customers about your intent.

Re: The Fight for the “Right to Repair”

#49
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think the ethical question is greatly overblown. Not at all. One programmer is going to make choices that affect ~ a billion vehicles one day, so something that doesn't happen 99.9999% per hour will happen 100 times per hour. And it's going to be more mundane things, like programming the speed limit 1 mph slower results in 500 less deaths per year, or using drm/copyright to stop poor people from getting driving s…

Programmers are not going to decide what is an acceptable MPH vs posted speed or if the car will use DRM. Much like how programmers at Volkswagen, Audi, etc are not the ones that chose to cheat emissions tests. The real choice is going to be what to do about soft obstacles. Hitting a person or deer can easily kill passengers and hitting trees is actually normally safer thus making the discussion fairly moot. People a…

Programmers have to make decisions about those things all the time. It isn't like the product team defines every nitty-gritty detail of implementation -- especially for machine learning and AI algorithms.

Re: The Fight for the “Right to Repair”

#50

For me, Apple devices are always what come to mind when thinking about ability to repair and modify. I used to not mind when I couldn't open my iPod Classic to replace the battery, because failures like this rarely occurred and when they did Apple repaired them easily. Today however, when something as trivial as a computer memory upgrade is restricted, and the Genius Bar is overloaded with iPhone screen repairs, I fi…

There are tons of third party repair shops for iPhone. It's also easy to do at home, I replaced my battery not too long ago. Apple definitely has that reputation, but I don't think its deserved in my experience. They user manuals for machines with replaceable parts often describe exactly how to do it. For other things that require a tiny bit of skill or where an unskilled person could easily mess things up, they put…

It's absolutely deserved. The things that are officially user serviceable now are very minimal, and the tamper-resistant screws and glues used aren't to protect devices from their users (which would also be a bad idea), they're to prevent people from taking advantage of a cheaper alternative to paying Apple for out of warranty repair service. You cannot buy things like batteries from Apple, and Apple will not provide you with tools to bypass their tamper-resistance efforts. Only third party sources will do that.
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