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Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

asiancorrespondent.com

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Re: Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

#311

Post by meira »

noobermin wrote: post #292
meira wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's get to some definitions here. Is a country democratic if it has local elections and at the same time segreggate their own and drone other nations - while removing democratically elected presidents ?

To be fair, he is referring specifically to a liberal democracy, which isn't just "democratic". By the way, I hope you realize this borders Ad Hominem. Does the US have it's issues that it needs to solve? Yes . Does that somehow void out argument that extrajudicial killings are okay? No . As many others have pointed out, the difference is you have BLM here and Atlantic articles that point out drone strikes publishing…

> As many others have pointed out, the difference is you have BLM here and Atlantic articles that point out drone strikes publishing in the US, and there is some movement (although, not as rapid as many of us would wish for) on the ground to make things better

Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, Lybia, Syria. I disagree with you that any of these events created a better ground for the next one. I would say exactly the opposite, as the US govt started to drone even their own citizens.

Re: Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

#313

Post by Hasknewbie »

Amezarak wrote: post #267
Hasknewbie wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Human Rights are about as real as money: you can claim it's a made-up social concept, but good luck denying its worth.

Sure, that's a good analogy. Human rights are a currency printed by the West. They have a lot of weight because of the political and economic weight of the west. But they're still fundamentally Western, and not everyone accepts that currency.

Taiwan never was colonized by a Western power, and they are the most progressive democracy in Asia (quirky-folksy democracy, but democracy nonetheless). Thailand never was colonized at all, and it sucks for them right now, but there are many democrats there. In fact during the colonial era Western powers considered democracy "non-exportable" (for obvious self-serving reasons), yet it was used as a moral and ideological weapon by many independence movements (India springs to mind). So not really "printed by the West".

Re: Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

#314

Post by atemerev »

scarmig wrote: post #287
atemerev wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UBI will not happen. Not because free money are not good for the people — they are. Not because everyone will suddenly get lazy and stop working — they won't. Because UBI is unsustainable and won't last more than a year. There is not enough money for any plausible scenario. That's why. And yes, let's give people "free" money and do nothing about hugely overpriced and corrupt healthcare system, education and things. I…

In the USA, it is entirely possible to institute a reasonable UBI, on the order of $10k/adult with some fractional amount for their dependents. The question is politics: it'd also require scrapping most of our current welfare programs and instituting Scandinavian levels of taxation. This ends up goring {Republican,Democratic} {donors,clientele demographics}, so I agree that's presently an impossible lift in the USA,…

You either get Scandinavian welfare and taxation, or (very modest) UBI without any welfare, but still Scandinavian taxation. Will $10000/year cover any medical expenses? It is barely enough for food.

Also, taxes in Scandinavia (I lived in Denmark) are not that high. True, there is 50% tax, but no other hidden payments like social security or medical insurance. And medicine and education are free. I'd rather run business with 50% tax and no bureaucracy and no social security payments than pay all this.

One of the most expensive and problematic countries to run businesses is France. Scandinavia is piece of cake compared to France.

Re: Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

#315

Post by noobermin »

meira wrote: post #311
noobermin wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, he is referring specifically to a liberal democracy, which isn't just "democratic". By the way, I hope you realize this borders Ad Hominem. Does the US have it's issues that it needs to solve? Yes . Does that somehow void out argument that extrajudicial killings are okay? No . As many others have pointed out, the difference is you have BLM here and Atlantic articles that point out drone strikes publishing…

> As many others have pointed out, the difference is you have BLM here and Atlantic articles that point out drone strikes publishing in the US, and there is some movement (although, not as rapid as many of us would wish for) on the ground to make things better Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, Lybia, Syria. I disagree with you that any of these events created a better ground for the next one. I would say exactly the opposi…

And Crimea and Tibetan monks is okay?

Again, we aren't perfect saints, and we have evils that we need to fight from certain politicians and yes segments of the population who are ignorant to the effects of our "foreign policy". I'd even argue the anti-interventionist rhetoric of Trump and Sanders is part of why they are popular, so that group of pro-interventionist, I-Don't-Give-a-Fuck-About-Non-Americans group is quickly shrinking.

But the entire point of my comment, which you seem to have filtered out in your reply is that you read in popular US media about these issues, from many in the US mainstream press. Where in Russian media will you hear about the Crimean invasion? (A negative perspective, at least) Or the plight of Tibetan monks in China?

The world isn't black and white, but the idea of liberal democracy I think is a worthy ideal, even if we fall short of it precisely with what we have done in the Middle East, towards left-ist governments in South America. At the very least, the fact we can even have this conversation is a testament to the (possibly degrading) freedom of speech that we are lucky to have in the US and one that seems to be waning now in Philippines specifically.

Re: Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

#316

Post by lostlogin »

jister wrote: post #172
jacquesm wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I'm just making the point that we have a judicial process because merely claiming someone is a criminal should not be enough to get them killed. OP is anonymous so I didn't see any harm in this. I don't use drugs, don't drink (pretty boring person here). > And this also brings up another question, what counts as a drug? Well, it's simple: that's the stuff the person you just killed was selling to your nephew thre…

Those related to drugs were killed during a buy-bust operation. And yes, there is judicial process but people will read more if the media highlights and writes about "extrajudicial killing" instead.

And here is the President threatening to murder someone accused of drug trafficking if they step off a plane. This person hasn't been through the court process. Why do you think this is ok?

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/philippine-pre...

Re: Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

#317

Post by fucking_tragedy »

ianai wrote: post #301
norswap wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm susceptible as the next man, but I'm pretty damn sure I will never go around killing drug traffickers or users with the justification of improving my country or something abstract like that. It wouldn't be the same if, for instance, they posed a direct physical threat to me or my close ones.

But they do pose a direct, physical threat to everyone in the phillipines.

I know handful of alcoholics and prescription pill addicts. They have successful (for the moment, at least) lives contributing to society. They have an unfortunate problem.

Many successful, influential people had drug and alcohol problems. Leaders, philosophers, writers, surgeons, entertainers, mothers, fathers, brothers and sisters have been addicts that were never a direct, physical threat to anyone but themselves.

That doesn't distract from the fact that this problem can be solved without resorting to vigilante justice and out right murder. Death shouldn't be the punishment for having a problem.

Re: Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

#319

Post by fucking_tragedy »

geowwy wrote: post #25
libeclipse wrote: post #2

Is this a joke? Surely something so utterly stupid can't be real. This man just gave the public free rein to murder and get away with it. Jesus this planet is insane.

Seems crazy but people of the Philippines knew what they were voting for. This is exactly what he did when he was mayor of Davao: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodrigo_Duterte#Davao_City_may... To play devil's advocate: Drugs and the criminal networks supported by drugs are a massive problem in the Philippines. Police are too weak and too corrupt to deal with it, but this is a solution that works, even if it does off…

> To play devil's advocate: Drugs and the criminal networks supported by drugs are a massive problem in the Philippines. Police are too weak and too corrupt to deal with it, but this is a solution that works, even if it does offend our first world sensibilities.

To play devil's advocate: Jews and other degenerates are a massive problem in Germany. Police are too weak and too corrupt to deal with it, but this is a solution that works, even if it does offend our first world sensibilities.

Re: Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

#320

Post by yardie »

obj-g wrote: post #255
yardie wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is resisting arrest an executable offense? That is certainly needs to me. No, not really. I'm black so I know they're are 2 justice systems in the US.

If officers feel threatened, if you're aggressive, if you reach for something in your pocket, disobey them -- it certainly can turn out that way. The overwhelming majority, it may surprise you, take no pleasure in having to fire on someone. They want to go home to their families after work. I grew up in Phoenix, AZ -- I cannot step foot in South Phoenix for fear of my life. That's the truth. Their job is not to make…

Saying I'm black means I expect a very different approach and treatment from the police than you're typical, granola eating white liberal. I don't live in South Phoenix so why am I treated as if I do everywhere else in this country?
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