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Highly Available Block Storage

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Re: Highly Available Block Storage

#61

Post by mikeash »

3pt14159 wrote: post #43

I have been asking for non-SSD on DO for a long time now. My heart jumped when I saw the HN title, only to be dashed on the rocks. What are us data nerds supposed to do? We want to take 10 terabytes, run a batch process on it, keep the 20TB, then continue with about 5GB of working data until the next month's terabyte comes in, then we want to batch through the 21TB. Right now the price slider doesn't even go up to 21…

"All SSD all the time" is kind of DO's thing. There are lots of other VPS providers with round storage if that's what you're after.

Re: Highly Available Block Storage

#62

Post by boulos »

mwcampbell wrote: post #55

I think this might be a mistake. Ever since Joyent's commentary on one of the big Amazon EBS failures in 2011 [1] [2] [3], I've been suspicious of all network-attached block storage. Then again, I haven't heard of any big EBS failures recently; I wonder what changed. [1]: https://www.joyent.com/blog/on-cascading-failures-and-amazon... [2]: https://www.joyent.com/blog/magical-block-store-when-abstrac... [3]: https://w…

Network block storage isn't inherently broken, the initial EBS implementation was frankly just unreliable.

We've not had anything like those dark days with Persistent Disk. It's still true that having your storage across the network opens you to networking failures taking out your storage, but the gain in durability and maintenance pays for it (in our case, live migration would just be crazy with local spinning disks, we tried it didn't work).

Disclaimer: I work on GCE, and we want your business ;)

Re: Highly Available Block Storage

#63

Post by franey »

Someone1234 wrote: post #53
corobo wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminder that you have to act on abuse notifications sharpish. You're providing a service, it's on you if you ignore abuse notifies. "We received notice on behalf of a trademark holder that a customer of DigitalOcean was hosting infringing content on our network. DigitalOcean immediately notified our customer of the infringement, and the customer was given a five day period to resolve the issue. The infringing conten…

That statement is problematic, namely this: > The infringing content was not removed within the specified period even though several notifications were issued. You don't have to remove content under the DMCA, you can also file a counter-notice which gets the content host off the hook and then the matter goes to court[0]. But that also assumes DMCA which, if memory serves, was not in play here. It was a trademark comp…

It's against DO's terms of service to "use the Services in violation of the copyrights, trademarks, patents or trade secrets of third parties", which appears to be the issue here.

https://www.digitalocean.com/legal/terms/

Re: Highly Available Block Storage

#64

Post by btilly »

unethical_ban wrote: post #54
cmdrfred wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Find me a viable candidate who will work for the people and I will.

Gary Johnson isn't as insane as the other two.

Remember the old joke that I can't be a Democrat because I want to spend my own money, and I can't be a Republican because of what I want to spend my money on?

If you chuckled at it, you should check Gary Johnson out. For real.

Re: Highly Available Block Storage

#65

Post by Veratyr »

3pt14159 wrote: post #43

I have been asking for non-SSD on DO for a long time now. My heart jumped when I saw the HN title, only to be dashed on the rocks. What are us data nerds supposed to do? We want to take 10 terabytes, run a batch process on it, keep the 20TB, then continue with about 5GB of working data until the next month's terabyte comes in, then we want to batch through the 21TB. Right now the price slider doesn't even go up to 21…

You're looking at the wrong market.

At Hetzner, you can rent a dedicated server with 2x3TB drives for about $25/month ($0.005/GB, to scale to multiple servers, use Ceph) and a few larger machines for under $100. At OVH you can buy object storage for around 1c/GB and rent a few dedicated servers for less than $100/month, or use their cloud.

If you go to the _really_ low end, time4vps will give you a 1TB VPS for 2EUR/month, if you pay for 2 years (and they give you 4x the storage as bandwidth).

I don't work for any of these companies but I have services with all of them.

Re: Highly Available Block Storage

#66

Post by Spivak »

unethical_ban wrote: post #54
cmdrfred wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Find me a viable candidate who will work for the people and I will.

Gary Johnson isn't as insane as the other two.

And, assuming you don't like Hillary or Trump, the most positive thing you could do with your vote this cycle is help a 3rd party get federal funding and a national stage to promote their platform.

Re: Highly Available Block Storage

#67

Post by e12e »

scq wrote: post #11
daveguy wrote: post #4

Edit3: Remountable/movable flexible storage for DO instances is what this gives you and it's kind of pricey. The comparison to B2 is not valid. Leaving the original mess for posterity. --- TWENTY times (edit) the price as B2 from Backblaze ($.10 vs $.005 per GB per month). It is one of the more expensive ones. But that gets you two things: * (moot See edit 2) SSD! (significant iops improvement) * (moot See edit 2) No…

Isn't it $0.10/GB/month? That would make it 20x the cost of B2.

Note that b2 charges 10x their cost/gb for downloads. Which means it's cheap only if you don't ever read your data back (at least in my use-case which was for ~1tb of backup data - makes it expensive to test your backups...).

We'll, "expensive" is obviously a relative term, but why store data and not access it?

https://www.backblaze.com/b2/cloud-storage-providers.html

Re: Highly Available Block Storage

#68

Post by kbenson »

franey wrote: post #63
Someone1234 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That statement is problematic, namely this: > The infringing content was not removed within the specified period even though several notifications were issued. You don't have to remove content under the DMCA, you can also file a counter-notice which gets the content host off the hook and then the matter goes to court[0]. But that also assumes DMCA which, if memory serves, was not in play here. It was a trademark comp…

It's against DO's terms of service to "use the Services in violation of the copyrights, trademarks, patents or trade secrets of third parties", which appears to be the issue here. https://www.digitalocean.com/legal/terms/

> Effectively their trademark policy is to automatically side with the trademark holder, irrespective of fair use[1] (see page 9+).

Did you miss that? It's not infringement if it falls under fair use. They were not following their TOS because they did not confirm the content was infringing a copyright

Re: Highly Available Block Storage

#69

Post by ngrilly »

boulos wrote: post #62
mwcampbell wrote: post #55

I think this might be a mistake. Ever since Joyent's commentary on one of the big Amazon EBS failures in 2011 [1] [2] [3], I've been suspicious of all network-attached block storage. Then again, I haven't heard of any big EBS failures recently; I wonder what changed. [1]: https://www.joyent.com/blog/on-cascading-failures-and-amazon... [2]: https://www.joyent.com/blog/magical-block-store-when-abstrac... [3]: https://w…

Network block storage isn't inherently broken, the initial EBS implementation was frankly just unreliable. We've not had anything like those dark days with Persistent Disk. It's still true that having your storage across the network opens you to networking failures taking out your storage, but the gain in durability and maintenance pays for it (in our case, live migration would just be crazy with local spinning disks…

> in our case, live migration would just be crazy with local spinning disks, we tried it didn't work

It looks like Exoscale does live migrations with locally attached SSDs.

Re: Highly Available Block Storage

#70

Post by fweespeech »

kbenson wrote: post #68
franey wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's against DO's terms of service to "use the Services in violation of the copyrights, trademarks, patents or trade secrets of third parties", which appears to be the issue here. https://www.digitalocean.com/legal/terms/

> Effectively their trademark policy is to automatically side with the trademark holder, irrespective of fair use[1] (see page 9+). Did you miss that? It's not infringement if it falls under fair use. They were not following their TOS because they did not confirm the content was infringing a copyright

Expecting a hosting provider to wade into fair use waters hand-in-hand with you is generally unwise.

The vast majority will not unless you are a large customer with your own legal staff on retainer to provide the appropriate legalese/notices/etc.

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