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Transforming NYC's Payphones into a 'Personalized Propaganda Engine'

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Re: Transforming NYC's Payphones into a 'Personalized Propaganda Engine'

#31

Post by kbenson »

walterbell wrote: post #22
krschultz wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I came here to say something similar. I've seen many people using them all hours of the day & night. People are watching music videos, charging their phone, getting directions, and surfing the internet. The people using them are often those that don't have the luxury (necessity?) of walking around with a nice smart phone and a big data plan. Do they have ads on them? Of course. So do the bus shelters which are funded…

Google's business model is based on selling user-generated data to advertisers, unlike telcos who sell network data to you . See Harvard professor Shoshana Zuboff's video on Surveillance Capitalism, https://vimeo.com/110222526 NYC has the leverage to negotiate better financial terms for capturing the value of city residents data. The money generated from harvesting city resident behavior can then be invested into cit…

> Google's business model is based on selling user-generated data to advertisers, unlike telcos who sell network data to you.

Sure, because the telcos have no interest in tracking their customers for profit[1]? As long as it's profitable and legal, any public company will eventually sell metadata regarding you. Since the data is profitable, if we want to protect ourselves from this that leaves us with making it illegal to collect and share, either through contract or by law.

1: http://www.theverge.com/2016/3/7/11173010/verizon-supercooki...

Re: Transforming NYC's Payphones into a 'Personalized Propaganda Engine'

#32

Post by walterbell »

blfr wrote: post #28
walterbell wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google's business model is based on selling user-generated data to advertisers, unlike telcos who sell network data to you . See Harvard professor Shoshana Zuboff's video on Surveillance Capitalism, https://vimeo.com/110222526 NYC has the leverage to negotiate better financial terms for capturing the value of city residents data. The money generated from harvesting city resident behavior can then be invested into cit…

Google's business model is based on selling user-generated data to advertisers, unlike telcos who sell network data to you. Come on. Telcos are just not competent enough to do what Google do. It's not like they're morally opposed to it or wouldn't try. Remember Verizon injecting headers into their users' http traffic to track them for advertisers? https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/11/verizon-x-uidh

Surveillance incompetence is a feature, not a bug, in a neutral network provider.

Edit: the onus is on the city to negotiate better terms with the network provider. The city would have a better negotiating position if there were multiple vendors (including telcos) competing for the network/data business. Once better terms are in the contract, security researchers can help ensure compliance.

Re: Transforming NYC's Payphones into a 'Personalized Propaganda Engine'

#33

Post by blfr »

walterbell wrote: post #32
blfr wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google's business model is based on selling user-generated data to advertisers, unlike telcos who sell network data to you. Come on. Telcos are just not competent enough to do what Google do. It's not like they're morally opposed to it or wouldn't try. Remember Verizon injecting headers into their users' http traffic to track them for advertisers? https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/11/verizon-x-uidh

Surveillance incompetence is a feature, not a bug, in a neutral network provider. Edit: the onus is on the city to negotiate better terms with the network provider. The city would have a better negotiating position if there were multiple vendors (including telcos) competing for the network/data business. Once better terms are in the contract, security researchers can help ensure compliance.

No, it isn't. That just means they will spill your data to some random 17yr old who figures out how to increment a parameter in the URL or something.

Re: Transforming NYC's Payphones into a 'Personalized Propaganda Engine'

#34

Post by andrewtlove »

While I certainly understand the paranoia here (hell, I uninstalled PokemonGO due to the invasive permissions), I see the positive here far outweighing the negative. The Internet is becoming akin to fresh air or clean water—a right for all citizens, not just those with means. I don't know the percentage, but there are a huge number of New Yorkers who can't afford Internet and are missing out on the digital world we're all engaged in on a daily basis.

As a New Yorker, I heartily welcome a city blanketed in free wifi. For the 300Mbs I get off of one of those things, I'll use a VPN just like I do with all public wifi networks.

Re: Transforming NYC's Payphones into a 'Personalized Propaganda Engine'

#35

Post by danjc »

I'd really like to hear from a domain expert whether tor or something like it could a) drastically mitigate the impact of this type of surveillance and b) how likely it is that it (tor) could become mainstream (sort of like WhatsApp made end to end encryption mainstream)?

Re: Transforming NYC's Payphones into a 'Personalized Propaganda Engine'

#36

Post by ultramancool »

danjc wrote: post #30
avn2109 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is pretty spoofable.

The point is that normally having your mac address is a unique way to identify you. Unless I've misunderstood you, you seem to be saying that because it's possible to spoof your mac you shouldn't worry about it being collected?

How about an actual solution?

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=eu.chainfire.p...

It's pretty much set-and-forget, randomized per-AP macs and random changes while scanning.

Re: Transforming NYC's Payphones into a 'Personalized Propaganda Engine'

#37

Post by darkstar999 »

andrewtlove wrote: post #34

While I certainly understand the paranoia here (hell, I uninstalled PokemonGO due to the invasive permissions), I see the positive here far outweighing the negative. The Internet is becoming akin to fresh air or clean water—a right for all citizens, not just those with means. I don't know the percentage, but there are a huge number of New Yorkers who can't afford Internet and are missing out on the digital world we'r…

> I uninstalled PokemonGO due to the invasive permissions

They are fixing that.

https://support.pokemongo.nianticlabs.com/hc/en-us/articles/...

Re: Transforming NYC's Payphones into a 'Personalized Propaganda Engine'

#39

Post by kbenson »

As he spoke, the screens shifted and a new message appeared: "If You See Something, Say Something. Be Suspicious of Anything Unattended."

Okay, that's kind of creepy.

[Google] actually went so far last year as to shit-can its own "Don't be evil" admonition to its employees in favor of "Obey the law"

No, they didn't[1]. Alphabet has a slightly more formal code of conduct[2], and it's not simply "Obey the law", it's "follow the law, act honorably, and treat each other with respect." Sloppy. Reporting using another news article as a source rather than just looking it up.

1: https://abc.xyz/investor/other/google-code-of-conduct.html

2: https://abc.xyz/investor/other/code-of-conduct.html

Re: Transforming NYC's Payphones into a 'Personalized Propaganda Engine'

#40

Post by smacktoward »

ultramancool wrote: post #36
danjc wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that normally having your mac address is a unique way to identify you. Unless I've misunderstood you, you seem to be saying that because it's possible to spoof your mac you shouldn't worry about it being collected?

How about an actual solution? https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=eu.chainfire.p... It's pretty much set-and-forget, randomized per-AP macs and random changes while scanning.

But the whole point is that you shouldn't have to do that. The burden shouldn't be on the individual to constantly be finding ways to keep one step ahead of surveillance. The burden should be on those who would surveil them to justify why it's necessary.
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