Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

asiancorrespondent.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 353 posts

Re: Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

#111

Post by jacquesm »

OoTheNigerian wrote: post #102
jacquesm wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As usual, mostly western commentators sitting on their high horses pointing and pontificating with no idea of local context or understanding. Or maybe they do understand but simply do not agree with either the methods or the goal. > First of all, Duterte was elected overwhelmingly with a clear mandate of using brute violence to clear out drug dealers. This goes well beyond drug dealers (and even then it is not the…

If a people vote for autocracy, is that democratic? Should it be respected?

That's a local affair as far as I'm concerned.

But you're taking issue with us on our 'high horses' criticizing it and that should be respected.

People have voted for dumb things many times in the past, in my opinion this is one of those times. Might or majority do not automatically make right.

If you 'clean up' a city or a country by extra-judicial killings that makes the cure no better than the disease.

If the country has a corruption issue the solution is not to go and kill people without due process. This is attacking a symptom, leaving the root cause un-examined and so will not solve the problem in the longer term.

Re: Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

#112

Post by fsloth »

OoTheNigerian wrote: post #97
thomasfoster96 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fact is, you do not get radical progress pandering to western styled hypocritical democracy or "human rights". It the reality. A harsh one. So what's the progress towards then? A totalitarian dictatorship that murders people? That's hardly progress of any sort. I'm quite happy to stay on my high horse if that means arguing for the rule of law and basic decency, both things which Duterte has thrown out the windo…

>It's a stupid, petty argument that is continuously peddled by figures in non-Western countries as a justification for doing whatever they like. Thomas, you may not not realise you have just written a one line thesis for the justification of colonialism. "You brutes have no idea to run a society. We'll come show you how" Of course, you most likely do not think in such nasty terms however, that is the translation. You…

I don't think anyone is claiming superiority either way. Britain just voted brexit in free elections mainly for stupid reasons.

The point is, there are two patterns here which should be of concern: a popular leader calls for violence and vigilante style justice. In the long term this a non-stabilizing policy and likely to do a bit of economic damage. The second is that I give it a fifty-fifty that Duarte will run through a legislation that will turn him into a president-for-life. These types of scenarios usually go bad, take Zimbabwe for example.

I'm not saying 'going tough' would not work in the short term - but there is no reason the president should concentrate on this single issue except to stir popular support. Just removing crime won't make rhe all other problems go away. I would claim 'going tough' is the ultimate cop out move by any statesman since it removes attention from other problems and does not help build anything new.

Re: Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

#113

Post by cocotino »

jacquesm wrote: post #103
cocotino wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell that to those who are tired of not being safe in their own homes because of the drug lords. Of course it's easy to say he's sick when you live in a civilised place with police protection.

And killing a large number of people is going to turn the country into a civilized place with police protection? If you're not safe in your own homes because of the drug lords you don't have a drug lord problem, you have a law enforcement problem and a corruption issue. Civilization does not magically arrive by killing a large number of people (and probably plenty of them innocent).

History has proven that doing away with all the uncivilised people makes a society better.

When the uncivilised people control a large amount of money, they control the power, and there's simply no hope of just fixing corruption as you propose.

I think what this guy is proposing will prove to be a good idea with time, and you have his time as a mayor as an example. Even if a few innocents die. To make an omelette you have to break some eggs.

Re: Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

#114

Post by schlumpf »

simonh wrote: post #82
cocotino wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell that to those who are tired of not being safe in their own homes because of the drug lords. Of course it's easy to say he's sick when you live in a civilised place with police protection.

I'm sure if the entire country was heavily armed and bullets were handed out like sweets the situation would calm right down very quickly. The US arms industry would be happy to provide them with a nice bulk discount.

We are talking about the Philippines. The guns do come from the US. The entire country is heavily armed -- compared to most countries -- especially Mindanao. Bullets are widely available. Some people would say this is exactly why the situation is not going to calm down and certainly not quickly.

Re: Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

#115

Post by ralfd »

zouhair wrote: post #52
OoTheNigerian wrote: post #43

As usual, mostly western commentators sitting on their high horses pointing and pontificating with no idea of local context or understanding. First of all, Duterte was elected overwhelmingly with a clear mandate of using brute violence to clear out drug dealers. He was clear about it and he is delivering on that mandate. I have to accept, he has made a PR error by not calling them terrorists. At which point, he will…

Hitler was also democratically elected. What will happen in the Philippines now is that anyone who any grudge with anyone will just kill that person and label him a drug dealer.

To be fair, after being elected Hitler made it impossible to unelect him.

Election ballot 1936: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahlrecht_in_der_Zeit_des_Nati...

Re: Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

#116

Post by deanCommie »

atemerev wrote: post #50
deanCommie wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Society. Society is responsible. The fact that people in the richest country in the world are still having this debate is appalling to Canadians and Western Europeans. Americans will be the last on this ship, but part of living in a prosperous 21st century society means giving up some liberty (in the form of taxes, limited access to guns, suffering additional government bureaucracy) for the knowledge that getting sic…

UBI will not happen. Not because free money are not good for the people — they are. Not because everyone will suddenly get lazy and stop working — they won't. Because UBI is unsustainable and won't last more than a year. There is not enough money for any plausible scenario. That's why. And yes, let's give people "free" money and do nothing about hugely overpriced and corrupt healthcare system, education and things. I…

There's more than enough wealth in society to redistribute it from the top 1% to the bottom 50% and give them a living wage.

Yeah, the Koch brothers would only be worth 5 billion instead of 40, but somehow I don't think their lifestyle will be altered in any way shape or form.

I expect this is probably an unpopular opinion on a forum for entrepreneurs

Re: Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

#117

Post by simbalion »

Bakary wrote: post #36
libeclipse wrote: post #2

Is this a joke? Surely something so utterly stupid can't be real. This man just gave the public free rein to murder and get away with it. Jesus this planet is insane.

It's actually not that insane from the perspective of a local voter who has nothing to lose and has a miserable crime-ridden existence. It's not qualitatively different from disenfranchised workers voting for Trump. It's the nuclear option for people who have no way to profit from the existing system. It just so happens that life is much, much easier in the US so there is no need to consider actual violence when thin…

It's insane. The country will descend into chaos because the rule of law will be replaced with the rule of the gun, and the gangsters are better at that game.

Also the president is probably headed for the Hague.

Re: Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

#118

Post by pyrale »

OoTheNigerian wrote: post #97
thomasfoster96 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fact is, you do not get radical progress pandering to western styled hypocritical democracy or "human rights". It the reality. A harsh one. So what's the progress towards then? A totalitarian dictatorship that murders people? That's hardly progress of any sort. I'm quite happy to stay on my high horse if that means arguing for the rule of law and basic decency, both things which Duterte has thrown out the windo…

>It's a stupid, petty argument that is continuously peddled by figures in non-Western countries as a justification for doing whatever they like. Thomas, you may not not realise you have just written a one line thesis for the justification of colonialism. "You brutes have no idea to run a society. We'll come show you how" Of course, you most likely do not think in such nasty terms however, that is the translation. You…

> Thomas, you may not not realise you have just written a one line thesis for the justification of colonialism.

The point is, how do you rebut this without using human-right thesis ? If enlightenment is to be discarded, why should people not invade your country and reduce its population to slavery ?

Re: Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

#119

Post by sedachv »

OoTheNigerian wrote: post #43

As usual, mostly western commentators sitting on their high horses pointing and pontificating with no idea of local context or understanding. First of all, Duterte was elected overwhelmingly with a clear mandate of using brute violence to clear out drug dealers. He was clear about it and he is delivering on that mandate. I have to accept, he has made a PR error by not calling them terrorists. At which point, he will…

> First of all, Duterte was elected overwhelmingly with a clear mandate of using brute violence to clear out drug dealers.

And journalists too! Kill everyone you don't like!

> “Just because you’re a journalist you are not exempted from assassination, if you’re a son of a bitch,” Duterte said when asked how he would address the problem of media killings in the Philippines, after a reporter was shot dead in Manila last week.

> “Most of those killed, to be frank, have done something. You won’t be killed if you don’t do anything wrong,” Duterte said, adding that many journalists in the Philippines were corrupt.

> “That can’t be just freedom of speech. The constitution can no longer help you if you disrespect a person,”

> Duterte raised the case of Jun Pala, a journalist and politician who was murdered in Davao in 2003. Gunmen on a motorcycle shot dead Pala, who was a vocal critic of Duterte. His murder has never been solved. “If you are an upright journalist, nothing will happen to you,” said Duterte

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/31/philippine-pre...

Re: Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

#120

Post by fsloth »

zouhair wrote: post #52
OoTheNigerian wrote: post #43

As usual, mostly western commentators sitting on their high horses pointing and pontificating with no idea of local context or understanding. First of all, Duterte was elected overwhelmingly with a clear mandate of using brute violence to clear out drug dealers. He was clear about it and he is delivering on that mandate. I have to accept, he has made a PR error by not calling them terrorists. At which point, he will…

Hitler was also democratically elected. What will happen in the Philippines now is that anyone who any grudge with anyone will just kill that person and label him a drug dealer.

"Hitler was also democratically elected. "

Actually his final rise to power came through back room shenanigans with Hindenburg when the popular support of the national socialist party was way below 50% of the voters.

Post reply on HN