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Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

asiancorrespondent.com

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Re: Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

#101

Post by kimmshibal »

pluma wrote: post #81
kimmshibal wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why you say they will kill random stranger? They kill an addict. Prisons don't have space anymore because gov don't have budget. You are welcome to go to my country and get mug by them. Your view will change.

Addicts are humans, too. We're not talking about killing an addict in self-defense. We're talking about being explicitly told to seek out and murder addicts. Do you not see any moral problem with that?

Addicts create more problem to our society here. They killed innocent people just to buy stupid drug.

You can choose to kill bad people or let it slide. The latter will cause more problem to society. Prison will do nothing. This is not scandinavian country.

Re: Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

#102

Post by OoTheNigerian »

jacquesm wrote: post #79
OoTheNigerian wrote: post #43

As usual, mostly western commentators sitting on their high horses pointing and pontificating with no idea of local context or understanding. First of all, Duterte was elected overwhelmingly with a clear mandate of using brute violence to clear out drug dealers. He was clear about it and he is delivering on that mandate. I have to accept, he has made a PR error by not calling them terrorists. At which point, he will…

> As usual, mostly western commentators sitting on their high horses pointing and pontificating with no idea of local context or understanding. Or maybe they do understand but simply do not agree with either the methods or the goal. > First of all, Duterte was elected overwhelmingly with a clear mandate of using brute violence to clear out drug dealers. This goes well beyond drug dealers (and even then it is not the…

If a people vote for autocracy, is that democratic? Should it be respected?

Re: Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

#103

Post by jacquesm »

cocotino wrote: post #68
electic wrote: post #16

> During the campaign, Duterte said 100,000 people would die in his crackdown, with so many dead bodies dumped in Manila Bay that fish there would grow fat from feeding on them. This isn't a joke. This is real. What a sick bastard.

Tell that to those who are tired of not being safe in their own homes because of the drug lords. Of course it's easy to say he's sick when you live in a civilised place with police protection.

And killing a large number of people is going to turn the country into a civilized place with police protection?

If you're not safe in your own homes because of the drug lords you don't have a drug lord problem, you have a law enforcement problem and a corruption issue.

Civilization does not magically arrive by killing a large number of people (and probably plenty of them innocent).

Re: Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

#104

Post by gozur88 »

guelo wrote: post #18

Philippines is a corrupt mess at all levels of society. The electorate is desperate and has opted for a ruthless strongman after decades of disappointments. They say Mussolini made the trains run on time.

Yeah, about those trains: http://www.snopes.com/history/govern/trains.asp

Strongmen don't usually make things more efficient by diktat. If you want to have a population that takes no risks and does the absolute minimum, just threaten to shoot them for screwing up.

Re: Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

#105

Post by discordianfish »

OoTheNigerian wrote: post #97
thomasfoster96 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fact is, you do not get radical progress pandering to western styled hypocritical democracy or "human rights". It the reality. A harsh one. So what's the progress towards then? A totalitarian dictatorship that murders people? That's hardly progress of any sort. I'm quite happy to stay on my high horse if that means arguing for the rule of law and basic decency, both things which Duterte has thrown out the windo…

>It's a stupid, petty argument that is continuously peddled by figures in non-Western countries as a justification for doing whatever they like. Thomas, you may not not realise you have just written a one line thesis for the justification of colonialism. "You brutes have no idea to run a society. We'll come show you how" Of course, you most likely do not think in such nasty terms however, that is the translation. You…

He doesn't talk about superiority or not letting people handle their shit. But that doesn't mean you can't criticize them.

Re: Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

#106

Post by abalone »

yelnatz wrote: post #23
libeclipse wrote: post #2

Is this a joke? Surely something so utterly stupid can't be real. This man just gave the public free rein to murder and get away with it. Jesus this planet is insane.

Nope, it's not a joke. This guy just got elected. He was mayor before this, and that's how he ran his city. He had secret death squads that cleaned the streets and "transformed" his city to the 5th safest city in the world. [0] [0] http://globalnation.inquirer.net/125132/davao-city-improves-...

That data is crowdsourced and methodologically questionable. Davao actually has a high murder and rape rate.[1]

[1] http://m.gulfnews.com/news/asia/philippines/one-crime-every-...

Re: Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

#107

Post by tomp »

OoTheNigerian wrote: post #97
thomasfoster96 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fact is, you do not get radical progress pandering to western styled hypocritical democracy or "human rights". It the reality. A harsh one. So what's the progress towards then? A totalitarian dictatorship that murders people? That's hardly progress of any sort. I'm quite happy to stay on my high horse if that means arguing for the rule of law and basic decency, both things which Duterte has thrown out the windo…

>It's a stupid, petty argument that is continuously peddled by figures in non-Western countries as a justification for doing whatever they like. Thomas, you may not not realise you have just written a one line thesis for the justification of colonialism. "You brutes have no idea to run a society. We'll come show you how" Of course, you most likely do not think in such nasty terms however, that is the translation. You…

> "You brutes have no idea to run a society. We'll come show you how"

That's quite an irrational leap from what he said... It could also be:

"We've tried all this before, we know democracy works better, so we suggest you implement it as well."

Re: Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

#108

Post by kimar »

briandear wrote: post #66
deanCommie wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Society. Society is responsible. The fact that people in the richest country in the world are still having this debate is appalling to Canadians and Western Europeans. Americans will be the last on this ship, but part of living in a prosperous 21st century society means giving up some liberty (in the form of taxes, limited access to guns, suffering additional government bureaucracy) for the knowledge that getting sic…

"Giving up liberty.." No. Liberty doesn't mean anyone has the right to harm other people. We should be encouraging more liberty, not less. We are not and should not ever be the Soviet Union. The Bolsheviks said the exact same things you are saying -- almost exactly. And no, it won't be different this time. Man is man. Suffering additional government bureaucracy? No way. It's interesting because I would bet you're opp…

Reminds me of a conversation I had as a teenager visiting Michigan while I was growing up in France. A friend asked: "What's France like? Don't you guys have less freedom?"

This was in the post-Iraq War context when Freedom fries became a thing. Still, I was baffled. And wondering why I wasn't allowed to buy a beer...

Re: Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

#109

Post by chatmasta »

OoTheNigerian wrote: post #43

As usual, mostly western commentators sitting on their high horses pointing and pontificating with no idea of local context or understanding. First of all, Duterte was elected overwhelmingly with a clear mandate of using brute violence to clear out drug dealers. He was clear about it and he is delivering on that mandate. I have to accept, he has made a PR error by not calling them terrorists. At which point, he will…

The US military kills "terrorists" abroad, in a war zone. If the US were giving its citizens carte blanche rights to label fellow citizens "terrorists" and execute them on behalf of the government, then your analogy would make sense. But as it stands, this is a wholly different situation from drone strikes, as reprehensible as they may be.

Re: Body count rises as Philippines president calls for drug addicts to be killed

#110

Post by deanCommie »

briandear wrote: post #66
deanCommie wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Society. Society is responsible. The fact that people in the richest country in the world are still having this debate is appalling to Canadians and Western Europeans. Americans will be the last on this ship, but part of living in a prosperous 21st century society means giving up some liberty (in the form of taxes, limited access to guns, suffering additional government bureaucracy) for the knowledge that getting sic…

"Giving up liberty.." No. Liberty doesn't mean anyone has the right to harm other people. We should be encouraging more liberty, not less. We are not and should not ever be the Soviet Union. The Bolsheviks said the exact same things you are saying -- almost exactly. And no, it won't be different this time. Man is man. Suffering additional government bureaucracy? No way. It's interesting because I would bet you're opp…

There is a middle ground between Joseph Stalin killing millions in Siberia, and dying homeless on the street in San Francisco because you can't afford your HIV medication.

And it looks like Canada, Switzerland, or The Netherlands. Utopias? Hardly. And that's not the point ("Utopia" is a black-and-white concept. The world is gray). The point is incremental improvements forward, sometimes 2 steps forward and 1 back (e.g. turns out legalizing prostitution doesn't automatically eliminate human trafficking. But it doesn't mean the idea is bad, just that it's not enough on it's own.)

You are correct, I am against warrantless government surveillance. But again, middle ground. Why can I not be against blanket all-encompassing communication surveillance with no oversight, but for regulation that protects my drinking water from factories dumping untreated waste? Or are you trying to tell me that it's both or neither? Because if so, I do not want to live in your Randian Utopia.

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