This tutorial helped me with generating Gerbers since the Jeremy Blum video didn't really help me there
https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/using-eagle-board-layou...
Intro to modern hardware prototyping
21–30 of 64 posts
Re: Intro to modern hardware prototyping
#22Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's definitely one reason for the lack of step-by-step tutorials. Another one is that each product is so unique, with its own needs when it comes to later prototyping phase and then manufacturing. Also, designing a enclosure is a completely different beast. Nowadays you would typically start out by 3D printing stuff and then later on in the process get it manufactured by injection molding. That means going to the…
Sure, I get that. I guess I'd still like to hear some stories from small companies that went through it. How do you find someone who can 3d print it for you? For that matter, how do you find someone who can do the design for you (and the experience to do it right)? Did you get it done locally, or in China? What are some pitfalls to look out for? How can you save money? How long does this step take? etc.
Yeah the real reason you never get guides to this stuff is that when it comes down to making a successful prototype, what makes it good vs. just barely work or not work at all is somewhat of a black art. There is so much intuition and experience that goes behind decisions like what material to use, what kind of fastening, how to seal it, finish, how/where to route cables, what kind of cables, connectors, will-it-pass regulation XYZ, is it safe, etc. It's nigh impossible to really get all that into a guide, you really just have to go at it and learn (which includes reading what guides there are ;-).
Anyhow here are a few points that might be relevant to you:
- As someone else mentioned, unless you're in a money-is-no-object sort of group, usually at a large corporation like google, then you'll almost always start with some stock enclosure for testing purposes. There are tons of choices, from extruded aluminum to cast steel, bent sheet metal, ABS weather proof housings. The list goes on. No, it's not a custom box designed by Dang from Silicon Valley, but trust me there's crap you didn't think of yet for the stuff inside the box. One step at a time, and remember, Compromise is the Hypotenuse of the Conjoined Triangles of success.
- Next stop: Proto Case[0]. They will use your CAD, or you can use their custom 'box cad' package. They will do sheet metal, solid machined metal, powder coating, fasteners, everything. Not ultra cheap or anything but still a good deal if you value your time. I can't tell you how many hours I've spent fixing/remaking sheet metal enclosures when I accidentally bent a flange 2mm too long, or screwed up dimension scaling while waterjetting it. It takes time to become proficient, even if you have the tools.
- For 3D printing and such, there are tons of 'Maker' shops that have popped up over the years. I've used Ponoko[1] before, and while slightly slow and again not ultra cheap, the parts are nice. They do 3D printing of many sorts (ABS, PLA, sintered metal, powder ceramic, UV resin), as well as laser cutting. Note: Laser cutters are REALLY awesome for prototyping things. I use a laser cutter constantly when developing prototypes.
- For machining, check out the First Cut[2] service from protolabs. You send them a CAD model, they analyze it and then you use a flash plugin to select materials, tools, threading, etc. and click go. Last time I used them they did single approach 3-axis parts in Stainless, aluminum, mild steel, various plastics, and brass. They also do CNC turned parts (on a lathe). The parts are very high quality for the price. Beware: The tolerances are not super tight, and they won't make any guarantees about mating parts! They made parts that mate for me and it worked, but it's a bit of a gamble.
- Protolabs also does 3D printing, as well as small run injection molding[3]. I haven't used this service so I can't say much about it, other than that their advertised prices are significantly cheaper than getting tooling made and certified anywhere else.
- Locally vs. China? Well if you mean getting a production run done in Shenzen, then if you have to as the answer is probably 'local'.
Anyhow, this is just based on my experience. I'm by no means a manufacturing or design expert. But I've made and worked on countless prototypes for all sorts of applications (nuclear medicine, MRI imaging, thoracic surgery, industrial microscopy, POC blood testing) and what I've said has held true in my arena. One final hint: If you're thinking of taking some hardware device 'to market', stop and think HARD about who your market is, how big it is, and how much it will cost to get there. It's quite possible that a traditionally 'production run' isn't necessary to get started. Lots of hardware projects started small. Also, in my experience investors aren't too keen to accept risk of the 'will the prototype work', or 'do you have the expertise to scale the hardware' variety. So bear that in mind.
[0] http://www.protocase.com/products/electronic-enclosures/
Re: Intro to modern hardware prototyping
#23I've been getting into playing with Arduino's and Photons, and have some ideas that I'd like to THINK about taking to market, but all of these sort of intros seem to stop at the PCB stage. They leave off the part about how to get an enclosure made - designing one, prototyping it, injection molding, etc. I think it's because that's where things get really expensive...
That and because the vast majority of products can use a standard, off the shelf enclosure. Problem is that many of the new product designers don't come from a hardware background and either aren't aware of the huge scope of what you can buy (and get modified cheaply) off the shelf, or they think that their product must have a fully custom enclosure.
One of the benefits of having a traditional engineering education and experience is working alongside other engineers and designers who are trained in fields you weren't. It's really hard to put that type of combined experiences into a book or a tutorial.
Re: Intro to modern hardware prototyping
#24I've been getting into playing with Arduino's and Photons, and have some ideas that I'd like to THINK about taking to market, but all of these sort of intros seem to stop at the PCB stage. They leave off the part about how to get an enclosure made - designing one, prototyping it, injection molding, etc. I think it's because that's where things get really expensive...
That and because the vast majority of products can use a standard, off the shelf enclosure. Problem is that many of the new product designers don't come from a hardware background and either aren't aware of the huge scope of what you can buy (and get modified cheaply) off the shelf, or they think that their product must have a fully custom enclosure. One of the benefits of having a traditional engineering education a…
Is there some way to find "of the shelf" enclosures online?
Re: Intro to modern hardware prototyping
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sure, I get that. I guess I'd still like to hear some stories from small companies that went through it. How do you find someone who can 3d print it for you? For that matter, how do you find someone who can do the design for you (and the experience to do it right)? Did you get it done locally, or in China? What are some pitfalls to look out for? How can you save money? How long does this step take? etc.
Yeah the real reason you never get guides to this stuff is that when it comes down to making a successful prototype, what makes it good vs. just barely work or not work at all is somewhat of a black art. There is so much intuition and experience that goes behind decisions like what material to use, what kind of fastening, how to seal it, finish, how/where to route cables, what kind of cables, connectors, will-it-pass…
Thanks for your great answer!
Re: Intro to modern hardware prototyping
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sure, I get that. I guess I'd still like to hear some stories from small companies that went through it. How do you find someone who can 3d print it for you? For that matter, how do you find someone who can do the design for you (and the experience to do it right)? Did you get it done locally, or in China? What are some pitfalls to look out for? How can you save money? How long does this step take? etc.
Yeah the real reason you never get guides to this stuff is that when it comes down to making a successful prototype, what makes it good vs. just barely work or not work at all is somewhat of a black art. There is so much intuition and experience that goes behind decisions like what material to use, what kind of fastening, how to seal it, finish, how/where to route cables, what kind of cables, connectors, will-it-pass…
I'm tangentially related to a business that uses protolabs for injection molding. It's worth noting that the tooling is so much cheaper in part because you don't actually own the mold; You cannot choose another factory for future production runs.
That said, for us protolabs was still the right choice and they have been a pleasure to work with.
Re: Intro to modern hardware prototyping
#27Eh, Eagle in this day in age? If you're going cheap, I'd stick with KiCAD. It's unintuitive, like GIMP vs Photoshop, but gets the job done with no restrictions on functionality. I've also heard decent things about CircuitMaker, but never used it. If you have any academic links at all though, or don't mind piracy, I'd grab a student edition of Altium Designer. Solidworks too if you can get it for mechanical modeling.…
Holy shit, that JLink is expensive. What does it get me more than the JTAG FTDI OpenOCD GDB setup that I have currently, who's boards cost my ~$100 in super low volume?
JLink is updated very quickly and works with every arm platform and IDE imaginable.
Re: Intro to modern hardware prototyping
#28Eh, Eagle in this day in age? If you're going cheap, I'd stick with KiCAD. It's unintuitive, like GIMP vs Photoshop, but gets the job done with no restrictions on functionality. I've also heard decent things about CircuitMaker, but never used it. If you have any academic links at all though, or don't mind piracy, I'd grab a student edition of Altium Designer. Solidworks too if you can get it for mechanical modeling.…
Holy shit, that JLink is expensive. What does it get me more than the JTAG FTDI OpenOCD GDB setup that I have currently, who's boards cost my ~$100 in super low volume?
FWIW -- for non-commercial uses you can get a J-Link EDU for about $70. The hardware is identical to J-Link BASE.
Re: Intro to modern hardware prototyping
#29I've been getting into playing with Arduino's and Photons, and have some ideas that I'd like to THINK about taking to market, but all of these sort of intros seem to stop at the PCB stage. They leave off the part about how to get an enclosure made - designing one, prototyping it, injection molding, etc. I think it's because that's where things get really expensive...
you might be interested in this: https://www.crowdsupply.com/sutajio-kosagi/the-essential-gui...
Even though I may not make it to Shenzhen, I purchased this from Bunnie and it was worth every penny. A work of art.
Re: Intro to modern hardware prototyping
#30Eh, Eagle in this day in age? If you're going cheap, I'd stick with KiCAD. It's unintuitive, like GIMP vs Photoshop, but gets the job done with no restrictions on functionality. I've also heard decent things about CircuitMaker, but never used it. If you have any academic links at all though, or don't mind piracy, I'd grab a student edition of Altium Designer. Solidworks too if you can get it for mechanical modeling.…
I'm very much against software piracy but if you're starting out in electrical engineering, you are doing an absolute disservice by not using a pirated version of Altium. Not only is it basically the industry standard (Cadence, Orcad, etc are mostly propped up by legacy clients, especially in aerospace and defence) but its interface and features are leaps and bounds beyond anything else. Pretty much all ECAD software is a naive port of the pen and paper schematic design process to mouse and keyboard (it's still called "schematic capture" in contrast to "PCB design") but Altium has moved far beyond that, especially with the introduction of cloud features in the last five years (like an online repository for user and vendor created footprints). The field of electrical engineering has been extremely averse to the ideas of open source but for many reasons, Altium's online resources among them, that is finally starting to change. Eagle does have a large community with companies like Sparkfun and Adafruit but those pale in comparison to the community forming around Altium, which is made up of a large number of vendors and professionals who are starting to grasp the benefits of sharing data.
Considering how much the package costs and how much Altium benefits from the growing community, I honestly don't think they'd mind if you pirated the software a few years before you could afford it.