A Nihilist's Guide to Meaning • Hacker News Board

Re: A Nihilist's Guide to Meaning

#11

Post by dublinben » Tue, Jul 12, 2016, 2:27 PM UTC

ebbv wrote: post #2

I've never read this guy's writing before but in this article I think he is way over-intellectualizing things. Meaning is whatever you want it to be. Some people find meaning in easing the suffering of others. Some people find meaning in raising children who will raise children, etc. even if in the fullness of time they will all cease to exist. Some people find meaning in really good sushi. It doesn't need to be any…

>Meaning is whatever you want it to be.

That is basically the post-modern absurdist position on the meaning of life. Most people still believe in an external source of meaning (religion) that exists regardless of your personal opinion.

Re: A Nihilist's Guide to Meaning

#12

Post by Mahn » Tue, Jul 12, 2016, 2:29 PM UTC

seletskiy wrote: post #4

I think, that meaning can be only defined in the case, when one is immortal. If I'm mortal, everything I do, good or bad, is meaningless for consciousness, because it will cease to exist and everything that will happen after death will have no effect on it. Any meaning, that's is defined while one is mortal is no more than illusion, in which people immerse themselves for whatever reason.

That's a bit pessimist, isn't it? It's a little bit like saying that living is not worth it because you'll die anyway. I think what we do is not about an indefinite future impact or goal, but about the how it impacts us and the people around us today, right now.

I see meaning as something not like a hard drive, where you store data once you are done, but like RAM, where you read, write and modify on the fly, constantly, while the machine is powered on.

Sure, at some point the machine will be powered off you'll be gone, but meaning doesn't have to be everlasting to exist and have an impact.

Re: A Nihilist's Guide to Meaning

#13

Post by nibs » Tue, Jul 12, 2016, 2:32 PM UTC

Meaning is what you feel when you act and others benefit, regardless of the effect that action has on you. Happiness is when you benefit, regardless of who acted or why.

In order to have a happy, meaningful life, you have to contribute to people who accept you and have those efforts reciprocated.

Lots of smart people find survival in the selfish sense very trivially easy. If you do not seek out opportunities to contribute, you will lack meaning in your life. And if those opportunities do not challenge you, you will lack meaning in your life.

We are an interdependent species. Not great white sharks (independent) and not ants (dependent).

Re: A Nihilist's Guide to Meaning

#14

Post by ZenoArrow » Tue, Jul 12, 2016, 2:32 PM UTC

seletskiy wrote: post #3

> So: meaning isn't a substance, but rather a feeling. In this way, it's a lot like beauty. If I understand correctly, author is saying, that you can't measure nor exactly define meaning, and then building follow up logical chain based on that axiom. If so, then it's just wrong, because all human feelings are results of biochemical processes inside a brain. They arise in exact situations and they are predictable as p…

> "If so, then it's just wrong, because all human feelings are results of biochemical processes inside a brain. They arise in exact situations and they are predictable as patterns. So, we can define feelings and analyze them to the point where we can see how they are building and what is causing one or another."

I doubt we know enough about these processes to make such a claim. For example, will one set of patterns always result in envy, or can the patterns behind envy also produce adoration?

Furthermore, with what we think of as the 'mind', what influence does it have over the response of the 'body'. In practice these may be one and the same thing, but phenomena related to 'mind over matter' definitely seem to exist. For example, practitioners of tummo can voluntarily alter their body temperature:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tummo

Without a deeper understanding of the relationship between the mind and the body, I wouldn't want to make any claims about how deterministic our minds are.

Re: A Nihilist's Guide to Meaning

#15

Post by JoeAltmaier » Tue, Jul 12, 2016, 2:33 PM UTC

Mahn wrote: post #12

seletskiy wrote: post #4

I think, that meaning can be only defined in the case, when one is immortal. If I'm mortal, everything I do, good or bad, is meaningless for consciousness, because it will cease to exist and everything that will happen after death will have no effect on it. Any meaning, that's is defined while one is mortal is no more than illusion, in which people immerse themselves for whatever reason.

That's a bit pessimist, isn't it? It's a little bit like saying that living is not worth it because you'll die anyway. I think what we do is not about an indefinite future impact or goal, but about the how it impacts us and the people around us today, right now. I see meaning as something not like a hard drive, where you store data once you are done, but like RAM, where you read, write and modify on the fly, constant…

So much this. For some reason humans have no appreciation for the value of time. Because a relationship ends, doesn't mean it wasn't good while it lasted. Because I have something now, doesn't mean I will have it forever.

Re: A Nihilist's Guide to Meaning

#16

Post by gkya » Tue, Jul 12, 2016, 2:34 PM UTC

seletskiy wrote: post #4

I think, that meaning can be only defined in the case, when one is immortal. If I'm mortal, everything I do, good or bad, is meaningless for consciousness, because it will cease to exist and everything that will happen after death will have no effect on it. Any meaning, that's is defined while one is mortal is no more than illusion, in which people immerse themselves for whatever reason.

If there is no afterlife, then I'm immortal: the end of my life is equivalent to the end of the universe, end of time. And in my infinite (!) life I associate certain understandings to certain things and certain events: that's meaning. This is not particularly an illusion, as it's real and there in my mind, and one way or another, abstract things exist. The illusion is the universal phenomenon itself, a spectacle we briefly assist and affect.

If there is an afterlife, I'm immortal. Thus again meaning exists, this time so in accordance with your definition thereof.

Therefore, meaning exists.

Re: A Nihilist's Guide to Meaning

#17

Post by hx87 » Tue, Jul 12, 2016, 2:36 PM UTC

adrianN wrote: post #9

sjwright wrote: post #8

I've never had an issue valuing my life knowing that it has no eternally persistent meaning. A poor analogy, but I like to explain a finite life's meaning by asking if a movie is any less enjoyable knowing that it's going to end. Sure, eventually our existence is rendered meaningless but that doesn't make it meaningless for me, now. Call that an illusion if you want, but it's as concrete as anything you can prove. Be…

Finding meaning in pleasure sounds like Hedonism to me.

OP didn't say anything about finding meaning in pleasure, only finding meaning in every single moment instead of at some metaphysical end of time.

Re: A Nihilist's Guide to Meaning

#18

Post by CompelTechnic » Tue, Jul 12, 2016, 2:36 PM UTC

adrianN wrote: post #9

sjwright wrote: post #8

I've never had an issue valuing my life knowing that it has no eternally persistent meaning. A poor analogy, but I like to explain a finite life's meaning by asking if a movie is any less enjoyable knowing that it's going to end. Sure, eventually our existence is rendered meaningless but that doesn't make it meaningless for me, now. Call that an illusion if you want, but it's as concrete as anything you can prove. Be…

Finding meaning in pleasure sounds like Hedonism to me.

Ain't nothin' wrong with Hedonism.

Re: A Nihilist's Guide to Meaning

#19

Post by cmpb » Tue, Jul 12, 2016, 2:39 PM UTC

koonsolo wrote: post #7

People are able to push through a whole lot of suffering when they have meaning. When all pleasure is taken away (e.g. concentration camps), only the people who have something to live for are able to survive. (ref. "Man's search for meaning" by Viktor Frankl) Too bad he doesn't mention evolution, because it plays an important role in preferring individuals who find meaning in something.

He does mention the evolutionary advantages of finding meaning briefly, at first, and then comes back to it toward the end of the essay. (He does a poor job of breaking his essays up into obvious sections, though; sorry for the lack of links to back me up).

Re: A Nihilist's Guide to Meaning

#20

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jul 12, 2016, 2:41 PM UTC

adrianN wrote: post #9

sjwright wrote: post #8

I've never had an issue valuing my life knowing that it has no eternally persistent meaning. A poor analogy, but I like to explain a finite life's meaning by asking if a movie is any less enjoyable knowing that it's going to end. Sure, eventually our existence is rendered meaningless but that doesn't make it meaningless for me, now. Call that an illusion if you want, but it's as concrete as anything you can prove. Be…

Finding meaning in pleasure sounds like Hedonism to me.

[deleted]