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UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

theguardian.com

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Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#41

Post by djschnei »

DavidSJ wrote: post #27
yAnonymous wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did anyone doubt what experts said? I was under the impression that most voters knew about it and still wanted to go ahead with leaving the EU, because they felt their arguments weighted more heavily than economic concerns. It's possible that both sides are correct.

Yes, people doubted what experts said. Brexit, along with several other contemporary movements such as Trumpism, have been driven by a profound distrust of the establishment.

Which is entirely understandable, no? (Hate trump personally, Brexit is a win though)

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#42

Post by JohnStrange »

ckinnan wrote: post #21
Fej wrote: post #3

It's always a tragedy when political maneuvering gets in the way of good science, and you know, advancing the human race.

The EU's retarding democracy and human progress; European growth is non-existent, the Euro is failing, and fiscal and banking mismanagement in Greece/Italy/Spain/Portugual are destroying German and British wealth. Britain has almost all of the world-class research universities in the European Union and they will thrive outside the EU. Edit with sources: EU real per capita GDP is flat after 10 years: http://ec.europa.…

Okay. Thanks for letting us know. I've always thought that dozens (or even hundreds) of governments from all political sides and from 28 different countries could not have gotten a project entirely wrong that they supported voluntarily for the mutual benefit of all member states during the past 40 years, but since you think otherwise I'll just take your word for it.

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#43

Post by endeavour »

m_fayer wrote: post #35
ckinnan wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU's retarding democracy and human progress; European growth is non-existent, the Euro is failing, and fiscal and banking mismanagement in Greece/Italy/Spain/Portugual are destroying German and British wealth. Britain has almost all of the world-class research universities in the European Union and they will thrive outside the EU. Edit with sources: EU real per capita GDP is flat after 10 years: http://ec.europa.…

That's a big list of hyperbolic and controversial positions. I normally don't demand citations, but in this case...

See how far you have to scroll down the list to find an university inside the EU (excluding the UK).

https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankin...

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#44

Post by kriro »

I'd actually go hard for British (elite) universities as partners for the next round of Horizon. It'll take longer until they get no funding and others will avoid them. Most importantly there's still going to be plenty of Brits from said universities reviewing the applications :D

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#45

Post by iaskwhy »

ckinnan wrote: post #21
Fej wrote: post #3

It's always a tragedy when political maneuvering gets in the way of good science, and you know, advancing the human race.

The EU's retarding democracy and human progress; European growth is non-existent, the Euro is failing, and fiscal and banking mismanagement in Greece/Italy/Spain/Portugual are destroying German and British wealth. Britain has almost all of the world-class research universities in the European Union and they will thrive outside the EU. Edit with sources: EU real per capita GDP is flat after 10 years: http://ec.europa.…

Many things could be said about it but today is a particular bad day to talk about the "EU's retarding democracy" as we, the UK, just got a new prime minister no one voted for...

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#46

Post by czr80 »

dekhn wrote: post #15
jarito wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It discusses this in the article. The challenge here is related to funding that is primary delivered by the EU structures. Now that the UK is leaving the EU, there is some concern that projects that contain UK representation, or are lead by UK researchers, will not be funded on time. This is due to the confusion around what Brexit will mean, how long it will take, how far it will go and what agreements the EU and UK…

Right, but while there is confusion and lack of clarity, it's not clear that immediately removing UK investigators is appropriate. Some amount of this is just petulance or telegraphing unhappiness, rather than rational decision making.

Science funding is extremely competitive. Why would it be rational for EU researchers to take on additional risk?

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#47

Post by 2skep »

ckinnan wrote: post #21
Fej wrote: post #3

It's always a tragedy when political maneuvering gets in the way of good science, and you know, advancing the human race.

The EU's retarding democracy and human progress; European growth is non-existent, the Euro is failing, and fiscal and banking mismanagement in Greece/Italy/Spain/Portugual are destroying German and British wealth. Britain has almost all of the world-class research universities in the European Union and they will thrive outside the EU. Edit with sources: EU real per capita GDP is flat after 10 years: http://ec.europa.…

As a result of majority voters voting in favour of Brexit and to recover the democratic deficit and negotiate UK's exit from the EU a new PM has been appointed who did not support Leave. She was selected by Westminster which is largely supportive of Remain

It would be very hard not to conclude that it is actually Westminster that is retarding democracy.

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#48

Post by junto »

wrong_variable wrote: post #19

Large Multinationals like Unilever, even for incremental decisions - like changing the type of light bulb, takes years to execute. This is why a large change in their business is so difficult and you need a very good CEO ( ask Marissa Mayer ) The decision UK made to leave the EU is akin for Unilever to switch from selling shampoos to selling software - and we are not talking about a multinational with 100,000 employe…

> Not only will the EU trade treaty need to be renegotiated, but so does the 50 other trade treaty with other nations - those treaties took a lot of time and over 600+ negotiators to write, the UK only have 30 negotiators and about 2 years.

The UK hasn't done their own trade negotiations for over 30 years. The EU has. They haven't got the right people with the right experience to do this (yet). They need to hire the best they can, or outsource, in order to get things in place within the deadline once the UK parliament has voted the referendum result through and Article 50 is submitted.

It is going to be tight. I imagine that Whitehall is in a shit storm right now.

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#49

Post by diego_moita »

ckinnan wrote: post #21
Fej wrote: post #3

It's always a tragedy when political maneuvering gets in the way of good science, and you know, advancing the human race.

The EU's retarding democracy and human progress; European growth is non-existent, the Euro is failing, and fiscal and banking mismanagement in Greece/Italy/Spain/Portugual are destroying German and British wealth. Britain has almost all of the world-class research universities in the European Union and they will thrive outside the EU. Edit with sources: EU real per capita GDP is flat after 10 years: http://ec.europa.…

> Greece/Italy/Spain/Portugual are destroying German and British wealth

Just wait and see what "destroying wealth" means.

England gave up on producing food during the Industrial Revolution, gave up on imperial colonialism after WWII and gave up on manufacturing after Thatcher. Now it is giving up on the services economy. It will be interesting to see what comes out of it.

Edit: Britain is not a paragon of fiscal responsibility. The only reason it hasn't been punished by the markets is because the markets are, to a great extent, in London. Things will change a lot.

Re: UK scientists dropped from EU projects because of post-Brexit funding fears

#50

Post by niccolop »

codecurve wrote: post #25

I just finished an EU funded CompSci Masters degree in Wales, the poorest country in the UK and it's devastatingly sad to think that once the EU research funding stops, those opportunities will be gone forever for future students coming through the department. There aren't enough large tech companies in the area for there to be any sponsored degrees available, which probably means that when the funding finishes, the…

Agreed, and think what it will mean for non-STEM research funding.
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