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Ask HN: How does a Jr. to Mid-Level programmer find work?

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Re: Ask HN: How does a Jr. to Mid-Level programmer find work?

#21

Post by jrockway »

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #20
jrockway wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but startups are an unusual case. Very few programming jobs are for startups. Most are for established companies that already have the business side down; where you are going to be too far away from "the business" for your experience to have any use. They need programmers that can add features in such a way as to avoid needing 50 new QA testers and overnight support staff. "Architechture astronautics" are fine;…

Posting a question to Ask HN suggests a predisposition towards startups. I've worked at small and large companies as well, and I've always been well-rewarded in job interviews and in the positions themselves for exactly what I'm describing. It's good to hear that two very different people can succeed in this business, just don't try to call BS on what I've found to actually work. I'll agree to refrain from the same.

Posting a question to Ask HN suggests a predisposition towards startups.

Why? I am a pretty well-known contributer to HN, and I have approximately 0 interest in startups. Since the word "startup" was never mentioned by the OP, I have no reason to assume he is interested.

Re: Ask HN: How does a Jr. to Mid-Level programmer find work?

#22

Post by lief79 »

First two jobs were networking, remainder were through recruiters or online ads (note, this is quite unusual). For reference sake, my first job was at a company I had interned with, and my second job was due to me ending up at my soon to be bosses house for a swing dance lesson the week after my resume had crossed his desk. When you are just starting, it's all about catching the right peoples attention from the hundreds to thousands of resumes that they see.

Suggestions:

Figure out where you want to look, and what the hot technologies are. In the Philly area, if you can demonstrate knowledge of Spring and Hibernate, you'll get far more offers then not anyone not having it.

Network: Join the local JUG, IEEE, etc. The more people you know, the better.

Volunteer: Something to add to your resume, and you'll get to know more people.

Read: Grab "What color is your parachute?" out of your local library. It's a great starting point for any job hunt.

Most importantly, keep at it. Actively job hunt and program. Sitting around playing games and randomly commenting on the internet are far less likely to connect you with the people you need. Do something that you can add to your resume.

Re: Ask HN: How does a Jr. to Mid-Level programmer find work?

#23

Post by pyre »

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #19
rue wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I am sure it is good to have. Just not necessary , particularly if mistaking it to be causes failure, stress or paralysis. One should strive to have something up there. If it pays, I guess that is a bonus. It is not your fault, but overemphasis on "monetization" or whatever the preferred word may be is really unappealing to me here.

I'm sorry you find it distasteful, but it's important to me, and likely to you too. Monetization comes in many forms, including the paychecks you might collect every two weeks, or the grad student stipend you might collect at the beginning of the term, or in many other forms. Paying rent and being able to eat are nice, and they're the direct result of monetizing something

I think he was referring to your insistence that showing an actual working product to someone in no way demonstrates your job potential as a programmer unless you already have a business running around the product with paying customers. The idea that paying customers demonstrates one's programming abilities is laughable. "If you build it, they will come," is a phrase best left in the theaters.

Not to mention creating a product that is great does not in and of itself generate a customer base. You have to use your business/marketing acumen to get that. And in a lot of cases, you can cover up your lack of programming skills by over compensating in the business or marketing areas.

Re: Ask HN: How does a Jr. to Mid-Level programmer find work?

#25

Post by aaronbrethorst »

pyre wrote: post #23
aaronbrethorst wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry you find it distasteful, but it's important to me, and likely to you too. Monetization comes in many forms, including the paychecks you might collect every two weeks, or the grad student stipend you might collect at the beginning of the term, or in many other forms. Paying rent and being able to eat are nice, and they're the direct result of monetizing something

I think he was referring to your insistence that showing an actual working product to someone in no way demonstrates your job potential as a programmer unless you already have a business running around the product with paying customers. The idea that paying customers demonstrates one's programming abilities is laughable. "If you build it, they will come," is a phrase best left in the theaters. Not to mention creating…

Having a working product with positive customer feedback is no Kevin Costner Hollywood gimmick; it takes tons of hard work. 'If you build a good product that can attract users, you'll have an easier job of convincing potential employers of your usefulness' is the only point I'm trying to get across. Do you disagree with that notion?

I'm perplexed and somewhat disturbed by what I interpret as an assertion that creating a successful product indicates a lack of software development skills. Am I misunderstanding you?

Re: Ask HN: How does a Jr. to Mid-Level programmer find work?

#26

Post by rue »

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #25
pyre wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he was referring to your insistence that showing an actual working product to someone in no way demonstrates your job potential as a programmer unless you already have a business running around the product with paying customers. The idea that paying customers demonstrates one's programming abilities is laughable. "If you build it, they will come," is a phrase best left in the theaters. Not to mention creating…

Having a working product with positive customer feedback is no Kevin Costner Hollywood gimmick; it takes tons of hard work. 'If you build a good product that can attract users, you'll have an easier job of convincing potential employers of your usefulness' is the only point I'm trying to get across. Do you disagree with that notion? I'm perplexed and somewhat disturbed by what I interpret as an assertion that creatin…

I am merely arguing that for a relative newb, trying to make money in addition to writing code is too much pressure for want of better term. In my opinion, bringing it up serves as a distraction more than anything. I may be wrong, of course, but I think the focus should merely be on the programming. There is a a whole lot to learn.

Re: Ask HN: How does a Jr. to Mid-Level programmer find work?

#28

Post by benwalther »

ig1 wrote: post #27

Be willing to relocate. This is the single biggest factor. If you're not in a tech-hub you'll find it a lot harder to find employment as a developer at any level. Where abouts are you based at the moment ?

Tricky. I'm in a similar position (3.5 years of info sec background) and I'm willing to work anywhere in the entire world. The problem becomes interviewing; nobody wants to fly me out to Amsterdam.

Re: Ask HN: How does a Jr. to Mid-Level programmer find work?

#30

Post by djb_hackernews »

I've had luck applying to positions that were looking for more senior devs but was something I was interested in. My current job came that way. Looking for someone with 7 years, I had 3, but I also had built projects in the same space and was actually a really good fit. Fresh out of school I got an interview the same way for a small company looking for 10+ years experience.

Just say "hey, this is me, this is what I've worked on that you'd be interested in, I'd like to interview. If not, hold on to my resume"

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