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Running a Software Business on 5 Hours A Week

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Re: Running a Software Business on 5 Hours A Week

#51

Post by patio11 »

wglb wrote: post #14

A marvelous post about Patrick's start of his "wee business" and how he got there on the time left over from his salaryman day job with a three-hour train commute to boot. Whether this overall will work for any of the rest of us, given what seems like incredible focus Patrick seems to have, is unknown. And this is not "work four hours per week to gain huge success in life". Like everything else he writes, this is bac…

I bet he now can't help but spend more than five hours per week on it

It is a very open question how much I'm going to be working after I go "full time", but I've rarely seen myself do great things after ~20 and that would leave me with plenty of time to catch up on living, so I think I might try that on for size. But hey, if I decide to do more or less in any given week, there won't be anybody to tell me not to.

Re: Running a Software Business on 5 Hours A Week

#52

Post by patio11 »

ja27 wrote: post #33
tptacek wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1186157

Yes, but he's already written large parts of the book on his blog. He could outsource an editor or even ghost/cowriter to assemble it. Could be a possible project for after he quits the day job, but there are probably others that would pay better.

This advice is written from the perspective that writing is 100% of the project. Writing is 10% of the project. Writing a salesletter, a marketing site, linkbaits, and obsessive promotion is the other 90% of the project. That is time debt that I take on as soon as I sit down and say "OK, I'm going be become an author."

The upside to it is miniscule: I know I can sell thousands of copies of software for $30, because I've done it, and am reasonably certain that I could sell accounts at a new SAAS for $100 / month, given time to work on it. I am not sanguine about my ability to sell thousands of copies of a book/ebook -- my most loyal blog readers number in the hundreds, if that. I'd also expect massive pushback on the prices that I think make sense -- for examples, take a look at every launch of a non-software info product on HN. (I think I'd be particularly at risk for that because a non-trivial portion of my audience likes the fact that I started a business for $60 -- and when you have $60 in your budget, $X00 on a book is right out.)

There are also psychic costs to me. I kind of value my participation at HN and the Business of Software, for example. It is my sanity-preserving lifeline. I'd really hate to have every post carry the implicit disclaimer "Warning! He is trying to sell you something."

Re: Running a Software Business on 5 Hours A Week

#53

Post by patio11 »

vaksel wrote: post #3

I think a large part of it is competition...you don't really have any so you can work as much or as little as you want. If you have competition like in 99% of the niches...you'll be working a lot more than that

There are three companies listed on the American stock exchanges with over 1,000 employees who sell products which directly compete with me. (They are, of course, much less important to those companies than they are to me.) Software-wise, there were ~15 shareware products and ~7 web applications last time I checked a few years ago. At least three of them actually know what they're doing (and one of those was launched by a participant from another forum I'm on who, ahem, paid me the sincerest form of flattery).

In a broader sense of the word "competition", my program is a proper subset of Microsoft Excel, I compete with the world's savviest Internet publishers (like Demand Media) for large portions of the queries of interest to me, and a portion of my queries are dual-use for a multi-billion a year industry. (Teachers are not the only folks interested in the top ten for [bingo cards].)

I mean, its not like I went and made a URL shortener or zip file extractor, but I also didn't go make something so staggeringly unique the world had not heard of it before or since.

Re: Running a Software Business on 5 Hours A Week

#54

Post by theBobMcCormick »

tptacek wrote: post #42
sachinag wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a large part of why I advocate waiting to incorporate until you can do it right. The instacorp LLC won't really protect you when you need it most.

I think that's pretty misleading. What protects you when you've incorporated is that your contracts are between your company and your customers, vendors, or partners. It's not the nature of the contracts themselves. Consolidated Gypsum can put your company out of business by dragging you through a lawsuit until you BK. It can't take your house . The reason contracts don't protect businesses is that they cost too much…

Good advice. Also, in most states setting up an LLC is cheap and easy. Here in Colorado, it's only $50 and a fairly thin form that only ask for the obvious stuff like; what's the company name, what's your name(s), etc.

Re: Running a Software Business on 5 Hours A Week

#55

Post by paraschopra »

dangrossman wrote: post #45
jseliger wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Works for me too. I often spend less than 5 hours a week working, and I have a 6 figure income. My web applications compete directly with Google and Microsoft, among others, so the "no competition" argument is out. I realize that HN doesn't encourage heavy self-promotion, but what is this business? Where is its website? Your story sounds wildly implausible, though it obviously isn't impossible. Still, it reminds me o…

http://www.awio.com or http://www.dangrossman.info/folio/ if you'd like to take a look. I'm extremely open about my business. I've thought about writing this type of article to share on HN before, but it always comes across as bragging instead of sharing so I can the idea soon after starting. This is not an overnight success story. I earned my first paycheck on the internet when I was 15 or so, 10 years ago. I've had…

Oh, wow, you run W3ROI? Please do write about your experiences. I (and many others) can learn a lot from it.

I'm trying to do something similar with http://visualwebsiteoptimizer.com/ - hopefully I will also be able to join the "5-hour workweek" club.

Re: Running a Software Business on 5 Hours A Week

#56

Post by sunir »

paraschopra wrote: post #55
dangrossman wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.awio.com or http://www.dangrossman.info/folio/ if you'd like to take a look. I'm extremely open about my business. I've thought about writing this type of article to share on HN before, but it always comes across as bragging instead of sharing so I can the idea soon after starting. This is not an overnight success story. I earned my first paycheck on the internet when I was 15 or so, 10 years ago. I've had…

Oh, wow, you run W3ROI? Please do write about your experiences. I (and many others) can learn a lot from it. I'm trying to do something similar with http://visualwebsiteoptimizer.com/ - hopefully I will also be able to join the "5-hour workweek" club.

Hey Paras, I'm one of your beta testers. I can assure you that you will go a lot further if you put in a consistent 40 hours a week for the next five years around the core idea of website conversion optimization rather than abandoning the product at some point in the future.

Re: Running a Software Business on 5 Hours A Week

#57

Post by maneesh »

eps wrote: post #34

Using Slashdot terminology - Interesting, but not Insightful. Patrick is trying to derive generic advice by formalizing his personal experiences. While it is useful to know what worked in his case, it is still just one project, an isolated experience. I've been in a similar situation myself. I have sold a startup that settled me and my family for life, and things unfolded pretty much as I expected them to from the st…

I've been running an Internet marketing firm on 4hrs / week for a year (see: http://maneeshsethi.com/how-to-live-the-digital-nomad-life/) and I'm currently building a marketing plan to sell the software that makes my 4h workweek possible. EPS...it's been done many times before and will be done again.

OPs time as an asset/debt idea is right up with what I believe, since people seem to believe their time is free...I believe it's better off outsourced so I can spend the one resource I'll never get back. Good article.

Re: Running a Software Business on 5 Hours A Week

#58

Post by threepointone »

Hey patrick/patio11, there are quite a few things I disagree with you about, but I love that you're a genuine guy. I wish you all the success and happiness in the world now that you're following your dreams full time. I'm very glad you're a hacker; the decisions you make and the thought you put into them always inspire me.

Peace.

Re: Running a Software Business on 5 Hours A Week

#59

Post by jacquesm »

skmurphy wrote: post #35
eps wrote: post #34

Using Slashdot terminology - Interesting, but not Insightful. Patrick is trying to derive generic advice by formalizing his personal experiences. While it is useful to know what worked in his case, it is still just one project, an isolated experience. I've been in a similar situation myself. I have sold a startup that settled me and my family for life, and things unfolded pretty much as I expected them to from the st…

Candidly I think you have mis-assessed. o Code is 10% of the business o Wall Clock Time vs. Calendar Time o Avoid Events, Plan for Processes all seem broadly applicable and non-obvious

> Code is 10% of the business

Is pretty obvious to anybody that's ever had or worked in a business.

The other two are common sense. But that doesn't mean that it isn't good to re-iterate these things every now and then, but if you fell off your chair because of any of those three sentences then you do not have much - or even any - business experience, and likely are not quite ready to make the jump.

There are some much deeper insights in that piece than those:

- I started this business to make an extra $200 so I could spend it on video games without feeling guilty

That's a really good one, it shows you that no matter what goal you have when you start out your business you are not going to be even near it (in a positive or a negative sense) when you're a couple of years down the line. After all, why didn't he stop when he made his goal? Why all the extra work? Clearly we set our goals, then the goal becomes the new 'base', and we set another goal. If I can make $200, how about $400...

Another gem:

- The 'time as debt' view. That's a very interesting way of looking at time, and I think that if it is an original then that alone is a huge contribution to running a small business. It also says in no uncertain terms that if you want to run a small business, any small business, you should learn how to do some minimal automation.

There is lots of other good stuff in there, but those two stand out for me.

One really good thing too, is that in spite of doing this for years, Patrick never quit his job or skimped on it. He waited until the right moment, probably constrained by the $-in-the-bank as well as the amount of money made on a daily basis by the job vs the project.

Re: Running a Software Business on 5 Hours A Week

#60

Post by huhtenberg »

maneesh wrote: post #57
eps wrote: post #34

Using Slashdot terminology - Interesting, but not Insightful. Patrick is trying to derive generic advice by formalizing his personal experiences. While it is useful to know what worked in his case, it is still just one project, an isolated experience. I've been in a similar situation myself. I have sold a startup that settled me and my family for life, and things unfolded pretty much as I expected them to from the st…

I've been running an Internet marketing firm on 4hrs / week for a year (see: http://maneeshsethi.com/how-to-live-the-digital-nomad-life/ ) and I'm currently building a marketing plan to sell the software that makes my 4h workweek possible. EPS...it's been done many times before and will be done again. OPs time as an asset/debt idea is right up with what I believe, since people seem to believe their time is free...I b…

Wait till you get a kid or two. Then it becomes bloody obvious that your time is your most valuable asset.

:)

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