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The Spanish cooking oil scandal (2001)

theguardian.com

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Re: The Spanish cooking oil scandal (2001)

#61

Post by Kadin »

plafl wrote: post #59

I started to read the article but after reading some paragraphs it still continues spreading mistrust about scientists. This is a very bad indicator in my experience. I think there was some article about it here some time ago, since we cannot attack the science we attack the scientists. I skimmed the rest. I can believe in a government cover up, but I don't see the motivation. The article says it was to cover that so…

I started to read your comment, but stopped after the first sentence when you made it clear you didn't read the article.

Re: The Spanish cooking oil scandal (2001)

#62

Post by summarite »

cies wrote: post #47
jnbiche wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, you've implied or linked to some significantly different claims here: 1. That there is no Zika outbreak / outbreak of Zika-like symptoms (this seems irrefutably wrong and as far as I know even the typical conspiracy theorist sites aren't claiming this much). 2. That the symptoms of Zika are in fact caused by the organo-phosphate pesticide Pyriproxyfen (Zika has been a recognized viral illness just like others e.g…

> outbreak of Zika-like symptoms The symptoms are witnessed, sure. But are they caused by Zika; I think not. Zika is around for a long time, and seems to be relatively harmless (as in: no obvious symptoms). Therefor I do not speak of Zika-symptoms. The sources are merely by Google'ing, I did not do proper background checks. I did my own research on this some time ago and talked it though with a virologist I know; she…

Look, you're making utterly unsubstantiated claims based on your own conjecture and some supposed virologist friend. No matter how smart and educated you might believe yourself to be, you are just as ridiculously making stuff up as eg climate deniers.

Re: The Spanish cooking oil scandal (2001)

#63

Post by summarite »

Very interesting article and sounds well researched and conclusive on the toxic oil case. I'm not expert enough to draw any real conclusions or doubt the evidence but it seems all rather sound. But his wholesale dismissal of most of science as agenda driven is just absurd.

The US case... might be possible if it's to protect local industry, like the whole fracking instanity. That being said, the line he draws from the Spanish case to conclude without any actual evidence that the newer cases are the same is spurious at best and just pure conjecture. I highly doubt that German ministerial staff would avoid food warnings for a known polluted food. They give such warnings or ban sales all the time and certainly wouldn't risk their heads for some Spanish farmers. No link to the PDF or hint at the source makes this sound like just a typical crackpot.

As the author said, the media is not always to be trusted and while scientists might worry about funding, journalists certainly often have to make bold claims and publish unverified theories to make a living.

Re: The Spanish cooking oil scandal (2001)

#64

Post by pvaldes »

willvarfar wrote: post #13
fasteo wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "aceite de colza" scandal is very well known in Spain.

Yes, and this article is explaining how that was a scapegoat coverup... My question is asking why no free press nor free police investigates the real cause of the mass poisoning.

The article does not "explain", just hypothesize.

This is not the first time that a commercial war based in vegetable products occurs in Europe. There is for example the recurrent episodes of vandalism by french productors against spanish trucks. They stop trucks and trow the contents in the road by force causing serious economical loses. Is practically a national tradition. Still happening in 2015 and gendarmerie does not much to stop it.

Sometimes politicians need to find quickly a scapegoat. In 2011 Germany accused spanish cucumber productors of contamination, and refuse to accept the clean results of the tests done in origin as true (yes, we have laboratories also). They were forced to retract later when the real origin of the outbreak was found in Germany, but spaniard producers lost a lot of money by the bad press.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Germany_E._coli_O104:H4_o...

What I'm trying to say is that his kind of articles aren't new and must be taken in its time context. Often there is an economic or political interest hidden that expires quickly. This article in the guardian points to tomato and was, curiously, written when EU wanted to reduce the subsidies to tomato producers. (Tomato was a strongly subsidized product in EU since 1978, but the system changed in 2001).

Re: The Spanish cooking oil scandal (2001)

#65

Post by fuzzbucket »

Mahn wrote: post #56

Note the last paragraph that suggests that this isn't just the 80s scandal, but something that is on-going today as well: > An internal German government memo was recently leaked to Der Spiegel. According to this, the monitoring of imported produce had revealed that there continued to be unsafe pesticide residues on fruit and vegetables from Spain. Some peppers were "highly contaminated" and the residues had "reached…

To be fair, the article was published in 2001.

Re: The Spanish cooking oil scandal (2001)

#66

Post by waqf »

fuzzbucket wrote: post #65
Mahn wrote: post #56

Note the last paragraph that suggests that this isn't just the 80s scandal, but something that is on-going today as well: > An internal German government memo was recently leaked to Der Spiegel. According to this, the monitoring of imported produce had revealed that there continued to be unsafe pesticide residues on fruit and vegetables from Spain. Some peppers were "highly contaminated" and the residues had "reached…

To be fair, the article was published in 2001.

If only we'd known back in 2001 that we were living in the bad old days when governments were irresponsible! At the time, we thought the new, shiny future had arrived!

Of course, we don't need to worry about this today, because the new, shiny future has arrived.

Re: The Spanish cooking oil scandal (2001)

#67

Post by argonaut »

pella wrote: post #54
argonaut wrote: post #40

FWIW, it appears many of these concerns were known and brought up during the original scandal 30 years ago: http://www.nytimes.com/1989/05/21/world/trial-in-spain-on-to... http://www.nytimes.com/1987/08/02/world/a-long-trial-in-spai...

"The epidemic is officially deemed to have started on May 1 1981"

Yes, and? Obviously people continued to investigate in subsequent years.
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