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How we're scammed into eating phony food

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Re: How we're scammed into eating phony food

#391

Post by mtone »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #311
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think you should get to dictate to others what food they eat? It doesn't matter if you think how people choose their food is not sensible, what matters for GMO labeling is whether you think they should be allowed to choose. Don't know what you mean by DHMO in this context, are you trying to make a joke about water? FWIW we have labeling for food dosed with water, eg bacon, such labeling is perfectly proper.

The problem isn't with labels per se. Sure, informed choice is best and all. But people are asking for GMO labels not because of a need to exercise informed choice - the campaigning is done because of irrational fears of GMO. Call it asking for an OK-ish thing for very wrong reasons. And DHMO in this context means the GMO fear makes about as much sense as DHMO fear. People are afraid because it sounds "chemically".

If you the GMO products are consistently 15% cheaper (thanks to better yields and lower waste they are promising) and routinely labeled organic (thanks to the promised reduction in pesticides requirements), consumers will be attracted to it.

If GMOs have nothing to offer, why would the consumer want them, harmful or not?

Re: How we're scammed into eating phony food

#392

Post by bitherd »

pvaldes wrote: post #227

The article is filled with mistakes and misunderstandings or maybe this guy eats in really terrible places: Spanish people weren't buying "fake olive oil" when poisoned. This was canola oil, was advertised as canola oil, and everybody in Spain can spot the difference among the wine and cider or between the cheapest olive oil and other vegetable oils. All this paragraph is false, including the “No one is checking, Olm…

The cheap imported rape seed oil blamed for the Spanish epidemic was probably a cover-up, it was actually pesticides being used in the cultivation of tomatoes. ( Posted earlier today here on HN: https://www.theguardian.com/education/2001/aug/25/research.h...)

Re: How we're scammed into eating phony food

#393

Post by vlod »

amelius wrote: post #231
koliber wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tomatoes are something of a passion of mine. The problems are exactly what you describe, with ensuring that transport will not ruin the fruit. Another facet is not only that the tomatoes are picked unripe, but also that the varieties that are grown are ones which optimize for being able to withstand long transport times as well as for uniformity. Consumers as a group like uniform, smooth, red-colored tomatoes, and th…

What I'm wondering about is when the tomatoes are picked, can't we artificially let the tomato think it is still on the plant? E.g., by applying nutrients through the stem, and using artificial lighting? Or why don't we ship the whole plant? :)

> Or why don't we ship the whole plant? :)

Unfortunately all the tomatoes don't come out at the same time.

Re: How we're scammed into eating phony food

#394

Post by 7sigma »

tremon wrote: post #345
7sigma wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can never prove that any food is safe beyond a doubt. You can only say whether it riskier or not than other types of food or breeding. In the case of GMOs, it has been shown to be no less risky than conventional or mutagenic breeding. "we modify genes without really understanding what they really do with detail" Except that with genetic engineering, we know precisely what they do. Ironically previous ways of chan…

Except that with genetic engineering, we know precisely what they do No, we don't. At best, we know a few of the reliable consequences of that gene locus. We know nothing of the proliferation that gene may have in a wild population, or how our modification will help or hamper the organism to adapt to a changing environment.

what I meant is that we know what proteins the genes at that location will do.

"We know nothing of the proliferation that gene may have in a wild population, or how our modification will help or hamper the organism to adapt to a changing environment."

We don't know exactly, but we do know a lot more than nothing.

Re: How we're scammed into eating phony food

#395

Post by gautamdivgi »

leroy_masochist wrote: post #309

My family raises grass-fed beef and sadly, this article is spot-on when it comes to the lack of consistency with that product. We know of farmers who go to cattle auctions and buy the cheapest steers they can find -- often sick and/or emaciated ones coming from farms in financial distress -- then fatten them up on grain while giving them pasture to forage, and sell it as grass-fed at farmer's markets. Just install a…

Not a farmer - but the wife does a fair bit of reading on animal welfare and organic produce.

We've quite often thought of sourcing our meat & poultry from the neighborhood farm as opposed to the stock "organic" that you get at the supermarkets. This article and several I read probably just helps me make that decision faster. I generally use whole foods today - level 4 rating on the chicken & 100% grass fed on my meat.

The farm, while being more expensive, invites you to see how they treat and feed the animals. This is as opposed to hidden practices in the organic & dairy industry where they are so tied to not giving the animals antibiotics that they will rather kill the animals as opposed to treating them for fear of losing their "organic" status.

To your point, my neighborhood farm does not have "organic" certification. They don't want to go through the paperwork. They treat their animals humanely and invite you to view their operation if you so wish. I believe eatwild.com has a list of farms as well.

One major drawback of (if you wish to call it that) is the meat is typically seasonal (as it should be). In the sense - there are specific harvest times when you need to order. You can't just walk in and get a steak or chicken for the evening. That means you need to plan 6 months to an year ahead and invest in a freezer with battery backup.

Re: How we're scammed into eating phony food

#396

Post by CalRobert »

tremon wrote: post #369
vilmosi wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a British national dish. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tikka_masala

Have you read the article you linked? Chicken tikka masala is chicken tikka, chunks of chicken marinated in spices and yogurt, that is then baked in a tandoor oven Those don't sound like British words... let's follow the links: Chicken tikka is a chicken dish originating in South Asia. A masala is any of the many spice mixes used in Indian cuisine. The name comes from the Hindi word for spice. The tandoor is used for…

Have you?

"...The historians of ethnic food Peter and Colleen Grove discuss various origin-claims of chicken tikka masala, concluding that the dish "was most certainly invented in Britain, probably by a Bangladeshi chef".[14] They suggest that "the shape of things to come may have been a recipe for Shahi Chicken Masala in Mrs Balbir Singh’s Indian Cookery published in 1961".[14]..."

Re: How we're scammed into eating phony food

#397

Post by AstralStorm »

gambiting wrote: post #41
lucaspiller wrote: post #9

Not quite the same, but earlier this year I was working in Italy for a few months. I went back to the UK last week and it really surprised me how poor the quality of food is there. I don't mean in restaurants, but the actual ingredients you get in supermarkets. In Italy you can go into even the cheapest supermarkets and get tomatoes that smell like actual tomatoes, where as in the UK they just have no smell. Even tom…

As someone who came from Poland to the UK, I was amazed by the quality of the ingredients in the UK. Tomatoes that smell like actual tomatoes, beautiful, tasty, sweet and crunchy carrots, onions, wealth and abundance of any fruit you can imagine. Cherries and watermelon in January?! What's this madness?! My point is - it all depends on your perspective. To me, quality and variety of ingredients available in the UK is…

You must have bought your vegetables in a big supermarket. Much better quality off small grocers and open air markets.

Re: How we're scammed into eating phony food

#398

Post by dragonwriter »

tremon wrote: post #341
vilmosi wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everywhere. I haven't stayed in a single hotel anywhere that doesn't serve English Breakfast. And I'm sure a lot of people are enjoying a Sunday Roast or a Chicken Tikka Masala every now and again. But of course, I know there are a lot of ignorant people in the world, which is why I admit the myth persists.

Chicken Tikka Masala That's not British though, it's Indian.

Its an adaptation of Indian cooking to British tastes developed fairly recently historically (different stories point to different origins either in Britain or in India during the British Raj or within a couple decades of its end.)

Re: How we're scammed into eating phony food

#399

Post by wildmusings »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #244
wildmusings wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not so sure. People are still sure that MSG will slowly kill them, when it's actually been proven to be 100% harmless as far as we know. You still see "No MSG" labels on tons of food. Mandatory labeling gives the impression that it's relevant information. Whether your food is GMO is totally without consequence. I don't see why the government should burden and mislead the rest of us so you can more easily wage you…

The scientific literature doesn't show MSG to be completely harmless. Some people definitely have negative reactions it and other sources of free glutamates. Eg http://www.livescience.com/47931-msg-not-safe-for-everyone.h... Copying from Wikipedia: >"Excitotoxicity is the pathological process by which nerve cells are damaged or killed by excessive stimulation by neurotransmitters such as glutamate and similar substan…

Funny that you quote from the excitotoxicity article but not the MSG article, which lists study after study proving that MSG in food is harmless. All reports of negative effects are anecdotal and unsubstantiated. This is for one of the most widely consumed chemicals in the world.

Re: How we're scammed into eating phony food

#400

Post by dragonwriter »

CalRobert wrote: post #396
tremon wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you read the article you linked? Chicken tikka masala is chicken tikka, chunks of chicken marinated in spices and yogurt, that is then baked in a tandoor oven Those don't sound like British words... let's follow the links: Chicken tikka is a chicken dish originating in South Asia. A masala is any of the many spice mixes used in Indian cuisine. The name comes from the Hindi word for spice. The tandoor is used for…

Have you? "...The historians of ethnic food Peter and Colleen Grove discuss various origin-claims of chicken tikka masala, concluding that the dish "was most certainly invented in Britain, probably by a Bangladeshi chef".[14] They suggest that "the shape of things to come may have been a recipe for Shahi Chicken Masala in Mrs Balbir Singh’s Indian Cookery published in 1961".[14]..."

From earlier in the same section: "The origin of the dish is disputed. One explanation is that it originated in an Indian restaurant in the United Kingdom,[3][7] but probably from the British Bangladeshi community which ran most Indian restaurants in Britain.[7] Rahul Verma, a Delhi expert on street food, offered a different explanation, speculating in 2009 that the dish may have originated—probably by accident with subsequent improvisations—in the Punjab and Uttar Pradesh during the last 50 years.[1]"
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