How we're scammed into eating phony food • Hacker News Board

Re: How we're scammed into eating phony food

#311

Post by TeMPOraL » Mon, Jul 11, 2016, 1:38 PM UTC

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #228

ptaipale wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is fine (I say as European). Requiring GMO labeling is is about as sensible as requiring DHMO labeling - it's scaremongering not based on science.

Do you think you should get to dictate to others what food they eat? It doesn't matter if you think how people choose their food is not sensible, what matters for GMO labeling is whether you think they should be allowed to choose. Don't know what you mean by DHMO in this context, are you trying to make a joke about water? FWIW we have labeling for food dosed with water, eg bacon, such labeling is perfectly proper.

The problem isn't with labels per se. Sure, informed choice is best and all. But people are asking for GMO labels not because of a need to exercise informed choice - the campaigning is done because of irrational fears of GMO. Call it asking for an OK-ish thing for very wrong reasons.

And DHMO in this context means the GMO fear makes about as much sense as DHMO fear. People are afraid because it sounds "chemically".

Re: How we're scammed into eating phony food

#312

Post by AJ007 » Mon, Jul 11, 2016, 1:40 PM UTC

pipio21 wrote: post #186

jokoon wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unrelated, but I was just debating GMO labels on "change my view" on reddit. I admit I was trolling that if GMO are healthy, then ultimately there is no harm in a neutral label. My comments got downvoted very hard. It boiled down that those labels would essentially be a form of misinformation, or that the uneducated public would make uninformed decisions. I don't know if I'm right or wrong, but the post got 400 comme…

The fact is that nobody knows if GMO are healthy or not. This is like saying that "machines are safe". It makes not sense, there all all kind of machines you can design. You should study a specific machine case by case. Gene modification is enormous, and open to all kinds of unintended consequences. Just because we don't understand it yet it does not mean it is safe(we modify genes without really understanding what t…

The GMO issue should really be broken apart in to different parts.

-GMO because tons of Roundup® has been dumped on it ~Is Roundup® safe?

-GMO for marketing or other purposes but which could have features harmful to humans. ~How much, if any, scientific & statistically valid tests have been done?

-GMO for any reason but could have features which disrupt the current flora & fauna of their environment. ~Can a problem be observed before it is too late to correct for it?

-GMO which results in expansion and/or defense of monoculture. ~Are consumers ok with low quality food with minimal variety?

Re: How we're scammed into eating phony food

#313

Post by 13of40 » Mon, Jul 11, 2016, 1:48 PM UTC

jfim wrote: post #299

13of40 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm from the US, and currently vacationing in Spain. My wife and I typically only eat at restaurants once or twice per vacation, so we've got ample opportunity to try local groceries. In my experience, the food here is superb. Some tomatoes we've bought are quite bland, but eggs are good. Preserved meats tend to be good (I mean tasty, maybe not good to eat all the time), and raw meats seem to be good quality and hygi…

Just a heads up, Carrefour actually is a very large multinational hypermarket chain, not a local grocery. It's one of the top ten retailers, on roughly the same scale as Walmart and Costco. They just don't have a presence in North America. Mind you, the food they sell is still significantly better than an equivalent low cost grocery in the US.

I find it really odd that when comparing European and American grocery stores people somehow turn a blind eye to the "supermercat" places you can find about three to a block here, whose sole mission is to sell dusty canned goods and 90 degree wine to desperate people who can't find anything better.

Re: How we're scammed into eating phony food

#314

Post by fhood » Mon, Jul 11, 2016, 1:49 PM UTC

Believe it or not, it is possible to make good food in the US for cheap, despite what the article says. I was lucky enough to be raised by two people who took cooking very very seriously (and to be fair we did buy olive oil from some family friends who owned a farm in Greece).

Point being that I have eaten all across Asia, Europe, and the Americas and very few restaurants produce food better than what I get when I go home. I suppose that it may be easier to find good ingredients in rural areas (local produce, seafood bought off the dock as the water-men brought it in etc..), such as the one where I grew up, but if you are paying $350 for fake Kobe in NY than you are more interested in the price of your food than the flavor anyway.

Re: How we're scammed into eating phony food

#315

Post by stephenr » Mon, Jul 11, 2016, 1:58 PM UTC

leroy_masochist wrote: post #309

My family raises grass-fed beef and sadly, this article is spot-on when it comes to the lack of consistency with that product. We know of farmers who go to cattle auctions and buy the cheapest steers they can find -- often sick and/or emaciated ones coming from farms in financial distress -- then fatten them up on grain while giving them pasture to forage, and sell it as grass-fed at farmer's markets. Just install a…

> There has never been good enforcement of governmentally-sanctioned standards pertaining to high quality farm produce in the US.

I'm not sure what your intended meaning was here, but don't make the common american mistake of assuming

    if ($americanThing === TERRIBLE) {
        $anywhereThing = TERRIBLE;
    }

Re: How we're scammed into eating phony food

#316

Post by DanBC » Mon, Jul 11, 2016, 1:59 PM UTC

ricksplat wrote: post #161

zzen wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because currently the USDA and FDA equivalents in EU actually work, and the laws that require food inspections are stricter. The worry is that TTIP market access policies will force uniform, lowest-common-denominator rules, eliminating european food QA policies.

Here is a really good example of food differences between USA and Europe. Something as simple as eggs: http://www.thejournal.ie/refrigerate-eggs-usa-europe-1809120... TLDR: European regulations force more stringent regulations on producers of eggs; therefore eggs are cleaner and you can store them for weeks without refrigeration. IMHO they've also got a much nicer colour.

> IMHO they've also got a much nicer colour.

The colour is just an additive put in chicken feed. You can get colour charts for the egg colours.

Re: How we're scammed into eating phony food

#317

Post by hvidgaard » Mon, Jul 11, 2016, 1:59 PM UTC

evgen wrote: post #288

kwhitefoot wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But does have a tremendous effect on the food. Of course you can get good food in the US I have been to many restaurants that were both good in an absolute sense and good value. But you know that there is something wrong when children say "I can't eat this it's too sweet" which is what happened to me when I took my family with me to North Carolina for an extended business trip. In the supermarkets almost everything y…

The problem here is that you do not know how to shop or find a decent restaurant. I can find truly bad food anywhere in the world, the US does not have any sort of monopoly on this.

Look at the other way around. It's possible to find good food if you know good food and keep looking. That is a problem when people grow up with that, they rarely know good food, thus they cannot find it.

I can guarantee you, take an average family in the US, make proper food for them for 6 months, and then server a meal that they used to eat. They will find it bland, too salty, and too sweet.

Re: How we're scammed into eating phony food

#318

Post by leroy_masochist » Mon, Jul 11, 2016, 2:05 PM UTC

stephenr wrote: post #315

leroy_masochist wrote: post #309

My family raises grass-fed beef and sadly, this article is spot-on when it comes to the lack of consistency with that product. We know of farmers who go to cattle auctions and buy the cheapest steers they can find -- often sick and/or emaciated ones coming from farms in financial distress -- then fatten them up on grain while giving them pasture to forage, and sell it as grass-fed at farmer's markets. Just install a…

> There has never been good enforcement of governmentally-sanctioned standards pertaining to high quality farm produce in the US. I'm not sure what your intended meaning was here, but don't make the common american mistake of assuming if ($americanThing === TERRIBLE) { $anywhereThing = TERRIBLE; }

Not sure if English is your first language, but the meaning of the sentence you quoted is straightforward, so I'm not sure why you're extrapolating American chauvinism from what I wrote. The scope of my comments is explicitly limited to the US.

FWIW, European enforcement is supposed to be much better but that's outside of my firsthand domain knowledge.

Re: How we're scammed into eating phony food

#319

Post by pcrh » Mon, Jul 11, 2016, 2:08 PM UTC

evgen wrote: post #277

pcrh wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that a problem with US regulations and enforcement, rather than EU ones?

It is a problem with US regulators assuming that EU regulations are something more than scams to bid up the price of olive oils by claiming they came from a particular region (usually one that makes some bogus terrior claim) when in fact they do not. If the EU cannot enforce its own vaunted food regulations then I suppose the US should just stop accepting any claims regarding food provenance and dispense with any DOP…

Most likely the oil is shipped in large containers and bottled in the US. So the labeling will fall under US jurisdiction, not EU.

Re: How we're scammed into eating phony food

#320

Post by sjwright » Mon, Jul 11, 2016, 2:09 PM UTC

rukuu001 wrote: post #84

cyberferret wrote: post #7

I am surprised this isn't more commonly known. Locally (Australia), there has been recent furore over the 'blueberries' in most foods (including blueberry muffins etc.) not actually being blueberries, but a bluey chemical gel. Also, a local delicacy, the Barramundi fish is commonly replaced in restaurants with the cheaper, imported, less tasty, commercially raised Nile perch. Same with prawns, where beautiful sea fre…

Additionally, most Australians (don't know about the rest of the world) have never eaten an actual scallop. Mostly they're discs hole-punched from skate wings (a skate's a bit like a stingray)

Australian. Citation please?