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3D Printer Comparison: $200,000 vs. $2500

additivepartdesign.com

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Re: 3D Printer Comparison: $200,000 vs. $2500

#21

Post by jib »

onion2k wrote: post #12
huuu wrote: post #2

If his conclusion were true companies like Shapeways would only use cheap hobby printers. But ofcourse it is not. Reliability, support, accuracy, all lacking with hobby printers.

If his conclusion were true companies like Shapeways would only use cheap hobby printers. But ofcourse it is not. It's far from a perfect analogy, but with servers Google demonstrated really well that the cost of high-end 'professional' equipment can be a waste of money where cheap, commodity kit can be used at scale instead. It's not completely unreasonable to think that a farm of cheap 3D printers could be used in…

People are freaking expensive. I think that is something that you miss easily.

200k sounds expensive for a printer, yet that is the cost of 1 guy for three years (assuming western country).

The 200k machine just has to be a small bit better than the 2500 machine for it to pay off so fast it is ridiculous. A commodity approach to printing sounds like it would involve a lot of quality checks and other really pricy manual things that would eat up that 200k in under a year.

If you can remove all human costs, then yes, commodity gear is likely better, because you are paying for gear that knows that humans are expensive, so even small savings in humans translate to a ton of cost, and so the professional gear is priced accordingly.

Re: 3D Printer Comparison: $200,000 vs. $2500

#22

Post by willvarfar »

I have never seen a 3D printer, although I have seen a model (of a house plan) made with a 3D printer. You folks who live near civilization and 'make' communities are so lucky! :)

Are there any 3D printers that integrate a milling machine?

I imagine a machine that prints the model slightly oversize, milling and then perhaps finally warming the surface to polish it, all as it goes...

I would love to have access to a hobby 3D printer as I have this idea that won't die about making a cylindrical version of the Enigma http://wiki.franklinheath.co.uk/index.php/Enigma/Paper_Enigm... with glowire or alternatively tracks for ball bearings, as a cheap present people can buy at, say, Bletchley Park gift shop. Silly thing to get fixated on.

Re: 3D Printer Comparison: $200,000 vs. $2500

#25

Post by rnestler »

What's also important when comparing 3D printers is maintenance cost and effort. For example: The Ultimaker 2 we have in our Hackerspace needs regular replacement (about every 600 printing hours) of the PTFE Coupler (hot end part). Also sometimes you need to perform a cold pull (https://ultimaker.com/en/resources/19510-how-to-apply-atomic...) if the nozzle is clogged.

Re: 3D Printer Comparison: $200,000 vs. $2500

#26

Post by armamut »

blahi wrote: post #23

This seems like an interesting hobby. How much time is needed to achieve a reasonably high understanding of this work? Not industrial grade expert, but a knowledgeable layman. And where/how can I educate myself?

I'm not even an engineer, and I have made one. But, making a 3D printer by yourself from ground up (or assembling one with the parts bought from china etc.) takes a lot of time. I only paid attention at my spare times, so it took my months. But I must say that, it is a very satisfying hobby. I strongly recommend it :)

But if you want to buy one, you can find very nice 3D printers at $250 - $300 range from aliexpress etc. It may take hours, a day or a week for calibration (depending on your printer model and printed part quality expectations), and you are good to go.

But I must say that, 3D printers need maintenance and that can take your time as well.

If you want to educate yourself, http://reprap.org/ is the site you would want to visit. Not only for making your own printer, but calibrating and maintaining a bought 3D printer as well...

Re: 3D Printer Comparison: $200,000 vs. $2500

#27

Post by onion2k »

jib wrote: post #21
onion2k wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If his conclusion were true companies like Shapeways would only use cheap hobby printers. But ofcourse it is not. It's far from a perfect analogy, but with servers Google demonstrated really well that the cost of high-end 'professional' equipment can be a waste of money where cheap, commodity kit can be used at scale instead. It's not completely unreasonable to think that a farm of cheap 3D printers could be used in…

People are freaking expensive. I think that is something that you miss easily. 200k sounds expensive for a printer, yet that is the cost of 1 guy for three years (assuming western country). The 200k machine just has to be a small bit better than the 2500 machine for it to pay off so fast it is ridiculous. A commodity approach to printing sounds like it would involve a lot of quality checks and other really pricy manu…

The 200k machine just has to be a small bit better than the 2500 machine for it to pay off so fast it is ridiculous. A commodity approach to printing sounds like it would involve a lot of quality checks and other really pricy manual things that would eat up that 200k in under a year.

Owning the 200k machine has to be better than owning 80 of the cheaper machines for it to be better. In a lot of scenarios that will be the case - if you need the improved resolution, reliability, etc that the 200k machine offers then the cheaper machines just aren't an option. In time though, as the cheaper machines improve, the expensive machine may stop being a better option.

Re: 3D Printer Comparison: $200,000 vs. $2500

#28

Post by lawless123 »

onion2k wrote: post #27
jib wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are freaking expensive. I think that is something that you miss easily. 200k sounds expensive for a printer, yet that is the cost of 1 guy for three years (assuming western country). The 200k machine just has to be a small bit better than the 2500 machine for it to pay off so fast it is ridiculous. A commodity approach to printing sounds like it would involve a lot of quality checks and other really pricy manu…

The 200k machine just has to be a small bit better than the 2500 machine for it to pay off so fast it is ridiculous. A commodity approach to printing sounds like it would involve a lot of quality checks and other really pricy manual things that would eat up that 200k in under a year. Owning the 200k machine has to be better than owning 80 of the cheaper machines for it to be better. In a lot of scenarios that will be…

"In time though, as the cheaper machines improve, the expensive machine may stop being a better option."

Or in time the expensive machine gets cheaper.

Re: 3D Printer Comparison: $200,000 vs. $2500

#29

Post by jacquesm »

willvarfar wrote: post #22

I have never seen a 3D printer, although I have seen a model (of a house plan) made with a 3D printer. You folks who live near civilization and 'make' communities are so lucky! :) Are there any 3D printers that integrate a milling machine? I imagine a machine that prints the model slightly oversize, milling and then perhaps finally warming the surface to polish it, all as it goes... I would love to have access to a h…

> Are there any 3D printers that integrate a milling machine?

No, and there likely never will be. Why would you wait for hours to then still have to mill down your final product when all the advantages of 3D printing are then lost and all the advantages of milling are lost?

The advantages of 3D printing are that as an additive process it will work in many environments where a subtractive process would not, the advantages of milling are that - as a substractive process - it can make a final result that is substantially stronger than most of the things you could do with a 3D printer and that it most likely is much faster.

Re-working or finishing like that is typically reserved for casting and other cheap mass production processes.

Re: 3D Printer Comparison: $200,000 vs. $2500

#30

Post by onion2k »

lawless123 wrote: post #28
onion2k wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 200k machine just has to be a small bit better than the 2500 machine for it to pay off so fast it is ridiculous. A commodity approach to printing sounds like it would involve a lot of quality checks and other really pricy manual things that would eat up that 200k in under a year. Owning the 200k machine has to be better than owning 80 of the cheaper machines for it to be better. In a lot of scenarios that will be…

"In time though, as the cheaper machines improve, the expensive machine may stop being a better option." Or in time the expensive machine gets cheaper.

That might also happen, but in general cheap things get better faster than expensive things get cheaper.
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