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23andMe Is Monetizing Your DNA the Way Facebook Monetizes 'Likes'

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Re: 23andMe Is Monetizing Your DNA the Way Facebook Monetizes 'Likes'

#101

Post by iteabagkevin2 »

rickycook wrote: post #100
bduerst wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've asked this question before and it is typically answered with nothing more than hypothetical "nightmare" scenarios.

there are plenty of situations that only exist in nightmare scenarios. that doesn't make them any less scary. someone brought up seat belts further up, and it's a decent example. why wear a seat belt? it only protects you in nightmare scenarios

Wearing a seatbelt protects you in very real and measurable ways. Crashes happen many thousands of times per year. You can't say the same about your anonymous data being used.

Re: 23andMe Is Monetizing Your DNA the Way Facebook Monetizes 'Likes'

#102

Post by eli »

unimpressive wrote: post #86
moultano wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By "practical consequence" I mean "something that has actually happened to you or someone you are aware of," not the worst case scenario of a dystopian vision.

If you get mysteriously denied a job, insurance, etc, you won't necessarily know. In fact, since you give out so much data about yourself so often, it's likely impossible for you to know who sold you out exactly or that you were sold out at all.

(As an aside, it is already illegal in the US to deny someone a job or insurance because of their DNA)

Re: 23andMe Is Monetizing Your DNA the Way Facebook Monetizes 'Likes'

#103

Post by nommm-nommm »

unimpressive wrote: post #86
moultano wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By "practical consequence" I mean "something that has actually happened to you or someone you are aware of," not the worst case scenario of a dystopian vision.

If you get mysteriously denied a job, insurance, etc, you won't necessarily know. In fact, since you give out so much data about yourself so often, it's likely impossible for you to know who sold you out exactly or that you were sold out at all.

FYI the Genetic Information Nondiscrimination Act of 2008 prohibits the use of genetic information in health insurance and employment.

Re: 23andMe Is Monetizing Your DNA the Way Facebook Monetizes 'Likes'

#104

Post by discardorama »

moultano wrote: post #74
krisdol wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just want to pay for a service or product and have that be the end of my interaction with the company as well as the end of the company's use, possession, and monetization of my data. When I buy a stick of gum I deprive the store of that stick of gum in exchange for money. On the Internet I'm purchasing something but the company gets to hold on to and share it indefinitely. It not only benefits from the money excha…

Have you ever had more than a minor annoyance result from some company's use of your data? I understand the instinct and ick factor, but I've rarely seen an actual practical consequence.

You could say the same about, for example, the NSA wiretapping your calls and listening in on them. Until you get caught in some bizarre situation as a result, you'll be happily oblivious. But your rights are still being violated.

That data (your profile) is yours, and yours alone. No one has the right to package it and sell it without your consent. Now, it is possible that you may feel gregarious and offer up your data; but that would be by choice.

Re: 23andMe Is Monetizing Your DNA the Way Facebook Monetizes 'Likes'

#105

Post by eli »

OberstKrueger wrote: post #64
Retric wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ADA already 'prevents' job based discrimination based on DNA.* https://www.ada.gov/ An employer buying DNA on potential job candidates is opening themselves up to a world of litigation for little real gain. Similarly, health insurance may no longer discriminate based on prior health conditions due to the dreaded 'Obama Care'. We can debate if that's enough, or if these things should be rolled back. However, at a prac…

Laws can change. Health insurance can't discriminate now, but what happens if Obamacare was repealed, or if the ADA was amended?

Obamacare / ACA didn't set that policy, the Genetic Information Nondiscrimination Act of 2008 was passed almost unanimously by Congress and signed into law by George W Bush. It's a very popular, bipartisan policy.

Re: 23andMe Is Monetizing Your DNA the Way Facebook Monetizes 'Likes'

#106

Post by dgacmu »

jacquesm wrote: post #83
dgacmu wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see why you're drawing that conclusion. As a customer, I'm happy with what I got: (1) Fairly high-confidence data about known "big" inherited conditions. This was useful when my wife and I decided to have a child - there were several things we could safely rule out screening for. No surprises, but "no surprises" was what we were looking for. :) (2) lower-confidence data for less-substantiated issues (who knew…

> Fairly high-confidence data about known "big" inherited conditions. This was useful when my wife and I decided to have a child - there were several things we could safely rule out screening for. No surprises, but "no surprises" was what we were looking for. :) I'm sure you felt the need to get a second scan from a different company to confirm the negative results because this was so incredibly important to you.

The sarcastic tone of your response suggests that you're expecting me to be an idiot and/or a hypochondriac. I may or may not be a typical 23andme customer (and wasn't suggesting I was), but we had very specific, actionable reasons for using their services:

Of course we didn't do a second scan, that would be silly. My wife carries some recessive genes for inherited conditions common among Ashkenazi jews, and because I don't know half of my ancestry, we simply wanted to confirm that I was negative for them. They're not particularly common, hence "no surprises."

Checking the embryo for diseases such as Tay-Sachs typically require chorionic villus sampling, which comes with a 1-2% risk of causing a miscarriage. Spitting into a tube and sending it for SNP testing is cheap, easy, and low-risk. Had I been a carrier, we would have had CVS performed. The 23andme results let us safely skip having an extra procedure performed. Net win.

(Note that this is not going out on a limb: screening for Tay-Sachs is strongly recommended by ACOG when both parents are known to be carriers.)

There are screening panels designed to specifically hit only the carrier status markers we were interested in, but for me, the extra ancestral information tipped the scale in favor of the more general information.

Re: 23andMe Is Monetizing Your DNA the Way Facebook Monetizes 'Likes'

#107

Post by awqrre »

kbenson wrote: post #54
krisdol wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just want to pay for a service or product and have that be the end of my interaction with the company as well as the end of the company's use, possession, and monetization of my data. When I buy a stick of gum I deprive the store of that stick of gum in exchange for money. On the Internet I'm purchasing something but the company gets to hold on to and share it indefinitely. It not only benefits from the money excha…

What makes you think that's ever existed? Have you ever entered your phone number or member number at a business for a discount? You think they aren't tracking that? What about just tracking you by some hash of you CC info? I'm sure there were 19th century New York shopkeepers that noticed a particular influx of specific immigrant nationalities in their shops, and may have inquired further and tailored their goods sl…

Do you really compare DNA and phone numbers? If you want to pay more for insurance, give some company your DNA and install a GPS tracker in your car (provided by the insurance company)... Anyways, for phone numbers, if I don't need to be contacted by a company, I give one of my free number that never rings... they can still track me but...

Re: 23andMe Is Monetizing Your DNA the Way Facebook Monetizes 'Likes'

#108

Post by jacquesm »

dgacmu wrote: post #106
jacquesm wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fairly high-confidence data about known "big" inherited conditions. This was useful when my wife and I decided to have a child - there were several things we could safely rule out screening for. No surprises, but "no surprises" was what we were looking for. :) I'm sure you felt the need to get a second scan from a different company to confirm the negative results because this was so incredibly important to you.

The sarcastic tone of your response suggests that you're expecting me to be an idiot and/or a hypochondriac. I may or may not be a typical 23andme customer (and wasn't suggesting I was), but we had very specific, actionable reasons for using their services: Of course we didn't do a second scan, that would be silly. My wife carries some recessive genes for inherited conditions common among Ashkenazi jews, and because…

23andme does not sell clinical diagnostic services, period.

If you are going to make really important decisions regarding your health or that of your descendants then you should really look elsewhere. You're not capable of interpreting the results and without a second scan you don't even know if the results are yours.

This is really not an area where - unless you are qualified in the field - you should 'self medicate', the risks are way too large.

> The 23andme results let us safely skip having an extra procedure performed.

I think you're putting much more faith in them than is warranted, and that's where for me the risk lies of services like these (besides the very obvious privacy issues).

> (Note that this is not going out on a limb: screening for Tay-Sachs is strongly recommended by ACOG when both parents are known to be carriers.)

Yes, it is.

Re: 23andMe Is Monetizing Your DNA the Way Facebook Monetizes 'Likes'

#109

Post by moultano »

discardorama wrote: post #104
moultano wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever had more than a minor annoyance result from some company's use of your data? I understand the instinct and ick factor, but I've rarely seen an actual practical consequence.

You could say the same about, for example, the NSA wiretapping your calls and listening in on them. Until you get caught in some bizarre situation as a result, you'll be happily oblivious. But your rights are still being violated. That data (your profile) is yours, and yours alone. No one has the right to package it and sell it without your consent. Now, it is possible that you may feel gregarious and offer up your d…

The amount of harm that a government can do to you is virtually unlimited. The amount of harm most companies can do to you is very small and effectively restricted by the law, even in the very unlikely event that they have some incentive to harm their customers.

Re: 23andMe Is Monetizing Your DNA the Way Facebook Monetizes 'Likes'

#110

Post by moultano »

rickycook wrote: post #100
bduerst wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've asked this question before and it is typically answered with nothing more than hypothetical "nightmare" scenarios.

there are plenty of situations that only exist in nightmare scenarios. that doesn't make them any less scary. someone brought up seat belts further up, and it's a decent example. why wear a seat belt? it only protects you in nightmare scenarios

Fatal car crashes are common, and car crashes that would have been fatal without a seatbelt are extremely common.
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