The Bongard Problems
foundalis.com
The Bongard Problems
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Re: The Bongard Problems
#2http://www.foundalis.com/res/solvprog.htm
Anyone know if since then, say using deep learning or other newer methods, these problems are solvable easier?
I like the idea behind this, perhaps being able to solve these would be a stepping stone before solving the Turing test. And I think this kind of stuff points to developing a general AI.
The background of this is very interesting. The author of this research has stopped working on the problem for ethical reasons:
http://www.foundalis.com/soc/why_no_more_Bongard.html
"If this is achieved, eventually intelligent weapons of mass destruction will be built, without doubt. That’s what I would like to explain below."
I don't want to comment on that or qualify it in any way (I do have some thoughts about it, but would rather not share them). Will just say it was an interesting find.
Also learned about Mikhail Bongard, a Soviet machine learning researcher from the 60s-70s -- http://www.foundalis.com/res/Mikhail_Moiseevich_Bongard.html for some reason I imagined that part of the world simply did not have any background or interest in that discipline at that time, so it is interesting to learn something new there too.
Re: The Bongard Problems
#3Re: The Bongard Problems
#4Boy does this make me feel stupid. Pattern puzzles in IQ tests are always the hardest for me. The first, "trivial" example stumped me...
Re: The Bongard Problems
#5Re: The Bongard Problems
#6Is the "hard" one that the shapes on the left all have >=50% of their sides as single, straight lines? I've never die these types of problems before so totally unsure if I stumbled on an answer quickly, or don't understand what defines a solution.
The rule is that the shapes on the left all have exactly three sides as single straight lines. (Similarly, the shapes on the right have exactly three "unusual" sides.)
That said, though I've referred to "the rule" and the post author also refers to "the solution" to a Bongard problem, they don't and can't have authoritative solutions, just as sequence completion problems can't. When we talk about "correct" answers to this style of question, what we mean is "what tends to occur to smart people".
Re: The Bongard Problems
#7Re: The Bongard Problems
#8[Edit]* this comment was not posted for a while, there is already another one with similar and more details now.
[1] http://www.foundalis.com/res/bps/bpidx.htm
[2] http://www.foundalis.com/res/poc/PrinciplesOfCognition.htm
Re: The Bongard Problems
#9Is the "hard" one that the shapes on the left all have >=50% of their sides as single, straight lines? I've never die these types of problems before so totally unsure if I stumbled on an answer quickly, or don't understand what defines a solution.
No, since the bottom left example has 7 sides of which only 3 are single straight lines and the top right counterexample has 7 sides of which 4 are single straight lines. The rule is that the shapes on the left all have exactly three sides as single straight lines. (Similarly, the shapes on the right have exactly three "unusual" sides.) That said, though I've referred to "the rule" and the post author also refers to…
They're not tests of intelligence so much as tests of how similar your pattern matching is to that of the test authors.
Re: The Bongard Problems
#10Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, since the bottom left example has 7 sides of which only 3 are single straight lines and the top right counterexample has 7 sides of which 4 are single straight lines. The rule is that the shapes on the left all have exactly three sides as single straight lines. (Similarly, the shapes on the right have exactly three "unusual" sides.) That said, though I've referred to "the rule" and the post author also refers to…
That's my issue with this kind of problem. There are usually a bunch of viable solutions with little if anything to differentiate them. They're not tests of intelligence so much as tests of how similar your pattern matching is to that of the test authors.
Well... they are tests of intelligence. A valid test of intelligence is one that lets you determine ("predict") the intelligence of a testee from their answers. For that, you need intelligent and unintelligent people to have measurably different answer patterns, but there is no requirement that the intelligent answer patterns be objectively correct. You could have a test that was entirely subjective ("Who was the better artist, Michelangelo or Jackson Pollock?") and still use it to predict intelligence[1].
[1] That's an invented example; I'm not claiming that the particular question of Michelangelo vs. Jackson Pollock is actually predictive of intelligence, just pointing out that it could be.