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Why most people don't like jazz

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Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#211

Post by Pistos2 »

sliverstorm wrote: post #181
mtalantikite wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went out to see Roy Haynes/Roy Hargrove the other night, and he basically said the same thing on stage. Looking out into an audience of mainly dead silent white people, he said something to the extent of: 'I remember when I was playing in Spain some years back with Joe Henderson and Chick Corea, and man the audience gave us no love back. But at the end of the concert a couple thousand of them all put up their light…

I hate it when people shout and yell and scream and whistle at concerts :( I'm there to hear the music, not listen to myself and other people's voices. I know that probably makes me sound like I'm a bit stuck up, or an old fogie, but honestly, I go to concerts to listen to music. That can't be that wrong.

I think part of this is culture. I grew up in North America, and when I visited the Philippines later in life, and went to watch shows in concert or in clubs, I was shocked at first because the audience would, without fail, applaud or cheer when the singer would sing the first line of the song. On account of my western upbringing (especially with regard to classical music), I was somewhat scandalized, and almost felt upset at my fellow audience members. I soon learned that, in doing so, they did not intend any disrespect, either to the performer or the rest of the audience, but rather were showing their support, appreciation and enjoyment of the musician's offering. A sort of "two-way" concert experience.

I suppose that, if most of the audience wants silence, it's respectful to keep silent during performances. At the same time, if most of the audience isn't concerned about that, I suppose it isn't that big a deal?

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#212

Post by Pistos2 »

baddox wrote: post #180
dan_sim wrote: post #27

I'm a musician myself who used to play jazz. The problem with jazz is that is considered by the people who listen to it like "pure art" when it is just a style of music. Jazz (and classical) is elevated higher than other form of music and music teachers will expect a good musician to play jazz. If jazz lovers would stop thinking at themselves as "higher educated" and jazz would go back to the people who want enjoy a…

I'm a musician, and I completely relate to the author regarding not listening to lyrics, etc. The thing is, I strongly dislike jazz. I can recognize creativity and virtuosity in jazz musicians, but the songwriting and soloing actually seems lazy to me (the opposite of what jazz proponents would probably say).

Please elaborate on (support) your assertion that jazz songwriting and soloing is lazy.

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#213

Post by wollw »

necubi wrote: post #199
talktalk wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I should clarify that by "instruments of a bygone era", I really mean "acoustic instruments speaking the language of bebop, swing, etc." While I agree that square dancing and other folk dance traditions can be fun, they can not by any means be considered "contemporary". Their appeal these days is that of nostalgia and fondness for these bygone eras.

As a 19-year-old who plays for contradances (a folk dance tradition from New England) and scottish country dances, it's hard to believe that the diverse crowds of teenagers, kids and adults of all ages are there because of nostalgia. The same is true of swing, lindy and blues dances I've been to: many people do genuinely enjoy these dance forms for themselves. All that's old is not irrelevant. Not everybody wants to…

Not only is it still relevant, people still add to the tradition. Brian Finnegan's tunes are some quite good recent ones.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lt3A_pIknY0

As the comments say the first tune is an older traditional song. The other two are written by him (who is playing the whistle).

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#214

Post by talvisota »

jacobolus wrote: post #201
talvisota wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I find it insulting when somebody comes and tells people how they should enjoy their music. I think your comment pretty much validates my image about the people who think they are better in listening to music than others. What has abstract thought to do with music history anyway? I am a software designer, and I truely appreciate useful abstractions that make creating good software a bit easier. But for music, I…

> I would have all the time if I wanted, but I don't, because I want to enjoy playing music - not to have it as yet another burden to bear. You’ve completely swapped cause and effect.

I thought I wasn't clear enough about that part, and so it seems. So I'll clarify.

Earlier, when I was learning to play guitar, I really really wanted to become a good guitar player. So, I spent countless hours to practice, but I wasn't advancing that much. And all the time I knew what the problem was, although I didn't admit it to myself.

It did not come from the heart.

I thought that it is only a matter of decision, and a matter of how much time and effort I put into it. But at the end it is a matter of motivation, and as you all know, motivation is not something you just pick and choose; it is something you look for, but you cannot force it. My motivation for playing guitar was shallow, but I tried not to face it, because becoming a good guitarist would have been so cool.

Eventually I started to hate it, gave up and got rid of the whole instrument.

Only years later I got a new "bite" to the hobby, and this time I was wise enough to admit that I am not willing to practice hard to become a good player - and never have been.

Instead, I just warmed up the old stuff, and started inventing my own music. Composing. Just trying out things, seeking for something that sounds good and then developing on that. Nothing too complicated or special. And boy, have I enjoyed playing guitar since then! I don't push a schedule, I don't push any targets, I just play exactly how I feel like and when I like. And time to time I feel like learning something new, borrow a couple of music books and have a sprint of actually practicing on something. But only as far as I find enjoyment in learning itself.

So, that is what I mean that I would have all the time I wanted, but I just don't (want). Anything more than I currently happen to put on it, would be waste of my time because I wouldn't enjoy it.

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#215

Post by rue »

Pistos2 wrote: post #212
baddox wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a musician, and I completely relate to the author regarding not listening to lyrics, etc. The thing is, I strongly dislike jazz. I can recognize creativity and virtuosity in jazz musicians, but the songwriting and soloing actually seems lazy to me (the opposite of what jazz proponents would probably say).

Please elaborate on (support) your assertion that jazz songwriting and soloing is lazy.

It is not an assertion, it is an opinion.

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#216

Post by rue »

sp332 wrote: post #43
dan_sim wrote: post #27

I'm a musician myself who used to play jazz. The problem with jazz is that is considered by the people who listen to it like "pure art" when it is just a style of music. Jazz (and classical) is elevated higher than other form of music and music teachers will expect a good musician to play jazz. If jazz lovers would stop thinking at themselves as "higher educated" and jazz would go back to the people who want enjoy a…

Wynton Marsalis says "When the music stopped being about dancing, people stopped listening." I never completely bought it, but I like the sentiment anyway :-)

I think sort of a corollary point to this is that many people associate jazz with the often cacophonous "free/abstract jazz" (or whatever the term du jour is.) The image is often of mentarbatory discord.

I do not like at least modern "free jazz", but fortunately I still have tons of good, slightly groovier stuff available from 1920's onwards, and I think much more people would likewise find enjoyment in the classics. With the various "internet radio" and customised stream software, searching for these usually brings an excellent selection of music: Miles Davis, Ornette Coleman, Sun Ra, Thelonious Monk, Billie Holiday, John Coltrane.

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#217

Post by Niten »

eru wrote: post #190
alaithea wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is a purposefully acquired taste superior to one that didn't require effort? Some songs are instantly likable, often because they are simple and their hooks are easily grasped. I would compare them to children's songs. You know the tune and words, and may find it fun to sing along with once in a while, but as an adult, you're not going to get anything deep out of "Row Row Row Your Boat" over the long run. Enjoy…

Deep and easy to get into are not mutual exclusive.

No, not necessarily, but it typically seems to be the case. In practice I suppose it's just plain difficult to compose something that's both accessible and deeply rewarding, and the few bands that can really pull this off become incredibly successful (e.g., Arcade Fire with "Funeral").

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#218

Post by roundsquare »

I think the author is missing two big points. The first is that, for people currently in their 20's (and probably a bit older/younger as well) jazz was something their parents enjoyed a lot. In the US, there is an strong tendency to dislike whatever our parents like, so from a young age jazz is automatically crossed off, and that carries over as we get older.

Second, if his argument was correct, Americans would generally require some kind of lyrical coherence to enjoy music. If each sentence in a song were completely disconnected from the previous sentences we wouldn't enjoy it. However, witness the popularity of DJ Girl Talk[1]. From a lyrical point of view, its only fairly connected. Of course, Americans will generally recognize the lyrics and that may offset my point to some degree, but I'm not convinced it does. (FWIW, I only recently found DJ Girl Talk and have become obsessed, so take that for what its worth).

[1] http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=05DBB3473E2A7D56

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#219

Post by olh »

I'm Brazilian and here jazz is also far way from the mainstream. I like jazz that "got the blues"; listen to some Focus jazz and you will see what I mean.

The problem with jazz is that, as commented by other folks, it is an art. Some jazz scales sounds suck, but they are hard to do. You will only like these musics if you appreciate the ability of the musician on playing it, and not the "sound/music" itself.

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#220

Post by easp »

mtalantikite wrote: post #142
sp332 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wynton Marsalis says "When the music stopped being about dancing, people stopped listening." I never completely bought it, but I like the sentiment anyway :-)

I went out to see Roy Haynes/Roy Hargrove the other night, and he basically said the same thing on stage. Looking out into an audience of mainly dead silent white people, he said something to the extent of: 'I remember when I was playing in Spain some years back with Joe Henderson and Chick Corea, and man the audience gave us no love back. But at the end of the concert a couple thousand of them all put up their light…

It's a classic death spiral scenario.
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