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The world's only immortal animal

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41–50 of 67 posts

Re: The world's only immortal animal

#41
post #12

What about enthropy? I would expect that after going between polyp and adult many times the DNA of some cells may get damaged, and the cells may not convert correctly to their new cell types, and eventually the organism will become more and more wrong until it dies.

A single animal is not a self-contained system.

Re: The world's only immortal animal

#42
post #30
post #12

What about enthropy? I would expect that after going between polyp and adult many times the DNA of some cells may get damaged, and the cells may not convert correctly to their new cell types, and eventually the organism will become more and more wrong until it dies.

In humans, DNA Polymerase (the thing that replicates DNA) makes about 1 in 10,000 base pairing errors. After other enzymes "proof read"- the mistake count is 1 in 1 billion. Keep in mind, that there is a lot of "junk DNA." junk DNA is DNA that does nothing, but a lot of mistakes are made in the junk DNA and the introns (parts of the junk DNA that do nothing) are cut out and we only keep in exons. Now I have another v…

Suppose the one in a billion number is right. But that thing has to have at least several billion cells. So each transformation will ensure that there are several cells that go wrong.

I mean people live a limited time and do not have to have their cells do these complex transformations, yet a large part of us still manage to get cancer before we die.

Also, I do not believe that stuff about mutations being just as likely to be good. If you have a complex organism any change is far more likely to be detrimental than positive. When you hit your watch with hammer, it is very unlikely you will get a better watch. It is much more likely you will get a broken watch.

Re: The world's only immortal animal

#43
post #4

Because they are able to bypass death, the number of individuals is spiking. Did they like ... just evolve or something? You'd think they'd have spiked before now and reached equilibrium.

Overfishing is the culprit here. With less fish in the seas jellyfish - immortal and regular - can procreate much more easily, and have access to more food. Here's a relevant article: http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/273850

I am surprised the tourism lobbies are not fighting the fishing lobbies on that one.

Re: The world's only immortal animal

#44
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Write stuff down! BAM, problem solved. (Seriously speaking, consider the sci-fi short story possibilities of an individual who had to reboot every 80 years or so, but who had had access to a computer and competent legal/investment advice for roughly the same timescale as the present-day Catholic Church has been in operation. Age 0 through 24 is essentially one long data dump, but he's gotten pretty good at constructi…

Keeping a journal probably wouldn't help. Take the case of Clive Wearing, who developed anterograde amnesia after a bout of encephalitis. He can conduct an orchestra, but he can't remember what he did 10 minutes before. He keeps a journal. It's a timestamped log of him saying that he's "finally awake" over and over. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clive_Wearing In addition to robbing you of your past, amnesia makes the…

But unless I missed something, amnesia doesn't have anything to do with the subject. In this case you don't forget what you did 10 minutes ago; you forget what you did 80 years ago (which I suppose most people do anyway).

Re: The world's only immortal animal

#45
post #29
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like immortality without memory is useless, so really that's the question.

Write stuff down! BAM, problem solved. (Seriously speaking, consider the sci-fi short story possibilities of an individual who had to reboot every 80 years or so, but who had had access to a computer and competent legal/investment advice for roughly the same timescale as the present-day Catholic Church has been in operation. Age 0 through 24 is essentially one long data dump, but he's gotten pretty good at constructi…

Basically, once we can clone humans, which we're pretty close to having the tech for now, this would be possible.

Such is the case for the leaders in the Æon Flux movie.

Re: The world's only immortal animal

#46
post #4

Because they are able to bypass death, the number of individuals is spiking. Did they like ... just evolve or something? You'd think they'd have spiked before now and reached equilibrium.

Although the subject is interesting the page, published on 16th March 2010, is poorly researched blog-spam. It is essentially just copied from one of the numerous pages that say the same thing, such as this one published on 27th January 2009

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/wildlife/4357829/Immortal-j...

The picture is not of Turritopsis nutricula, but T. rubra according to this page

http://www.ville-ge.ch/mhng/hydrozoa/hydrozoa-directory.htm

This is Maria's page

http://www.personal.psu.edu/mum31/

and the related journal article about ships' ballast is here

http://www.springerlink.com/content/81747575j2707j4g/

Re: The world's only immortal animal

#48
post #30
post #12

What about enthropy? I would expect that after going between polyp and adult many times the DNA of some cells may get damaged, and the cells may not convert correctly to their new cell types, and eventually the organism will become more and more wrong until it dies.

In humans, DNA Polymerase (the thing that replicates DNA) makes about 1 in 10,000 base pairing errors. After other enzymes "proof read"- the mistake count is 1 in 1 billion. Keep in mind, that there is a lot of "junk DNA." junk DNA is DNA that does nothing, but a lot of mistakes are made in the junk DNA and the introns (parts of the junk DNA that do nothing) are cut out and we only keep in exons. Now I have another v…

> That means 2/3 of the time- mutations do nothing or help the organism.

Imagine you have a series of integers being multiplied. Each step, you increase 1/3 of them and decrease 1/3 of them - you leave the remaining 1/3 untouched.

After enough steps, you have zero.

Re: The world's only immortal animal

#49
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Write stuff down! BAM, problem solved. (Seriously speaking, consider the sci-fi short story possibilities of an individual who had to reboot every 80 years or so, but who had had access to a computer and competent legal/investment advice for roughly the same timescale as the present-day Catholic Church has been in operation. Age 0 through 24 is essentially one long data dump, but he's gotten pretty good at constructi…

Until one day, there is a fire and all his computers with memories are burned beyond repair. And that too on the day of a reboot...

Luckily, he was storing everything in "the cloud!", so it's all ok.

Re: The world's only immortal animal

#50
It's worth noting that there's probably no fundamental reason why animals that live forever couldn't evolve. Sadly though, evolution favours whatever genes multiply fastest. There are trade-offs between living forever and reproducing as quickly as possible; and selection favours the latter.
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