Dispelling myths about the autistic programmer • Hacker News Board

Re: Dispelling myths about the autistic programmer

#11

Post by lucio » Sat, Jul 09, 2016, 2:43 PM UTC

morgante wrote: post #6

lucio wrote: post #5

What's the myth that's being "dispelled"? I see the "Alex St. John's infamous PowerPoint" image, pasted in the article, as more valuable than the entire article. St John is harsh an direct, and seems to contain more objective true than the entire article. Maybe another trait related to high-IQ+autism is a profound disregard for political correctness. Is St.John diagnosed with autism? Maybe the part of the brain dedic…

The fact is that people who are actually autistic struggle to gain employment anywhere, including as software developers. The vast majority of programmers are not autistic. The stereotype that they are is damaging both to programmers (by typecasting them) and to autistic people (by ignoring their real challenges).

Then it is good to consider autism an advantage in programming jobs, so people that are actually autistic have special treatment in the sector.

The question is: How many out-of-the-ordinary programmers have some form of mild arperger's? 90%? 99%? none?

Re: Dispelling myths about the autistic programmer

#12

Post by morgante » Sat, Jul 09, 2016, 2:52 PM UTC

lucio wrote: post #11

morgante wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact is that people who are actually autistic struggle to gain employment anywhere, including as software developers. The vast majority of programmers are not autistic. The stereotype that they are is damaging both to programmers (by typecasting them) and to autistic people (by ignoring their real challenges).

Then it is good to consider autism an advantage in programming jobs, so people that are actually autistic have special treatment in the sector. The question is: How many out-of-the-ordinary programmers have some form of mild arperger's? 90%? 99%? none?

We can't just "consider autism an advantage in programming jobs." It's not. The majority of programmers are not autistic and there are large parts of programming jobs which are very difficult for autistic people to cope with.

At best, autism is less of a disadvantage in programming than in other jobs. That's why it makes sense to focus on programming as a field for autistic individuals to move towards, though in practice my understanding that QA roles are actually often more suitable.

Unfortunately, what you end up with is individuals like Alex St. John taking someones disabilities as a reason to exploit them. That's ugly.

> How many out-of-the-ordinary programmers have some form of mild arperger's? 90%? 99%? none?

The fact that you're even throwing out numbers like 90% is ridiculous. There's no way that 90% of programmers have "mild Asperger's."

Re: Dispelling myths about the autistic programmer

#13

Post by optimuspaul » Sat, Jul 09, 2016, 2:52 PM UTC

I think some of the best programmers are very collaborative and not at all introverted. It's just stupid to generalize like that though. When I'm putting together teams I find I get the best results when I have a mix of nut jobs from across the spectrum of programmer personalities... except brogrammers, hate those guys ;)

Re: Dispelling myths about the autistic programmer

#14

Post by pyrale » Sat, Jul 09, 2016, 2:57 PM UTC

kstenerud wrote: post #9

I fail to see the fallacy in the St John's presentation. The Gamasutra editorial seems to widen the discussion to ALL autistics, which is not what the original presentation was talking about. It then goes on to say that not all Autistics match the "holy grail". Well no shit, Sherlock.

There is no fallacy, just a high level of bias towards a specific type of workforce.

Also St John's attitude is quite telling of his manipulative tendencies. That's not someone I would want to work with.

Re: Dispelling myths about the autistic programmer

#15

Post by lucio » Sat, Jul 09, 2016, 2:57 PM UTC

dschiptsov wrote: post #7

Tell that to guys like Igor Sysoev, who outperformed averages by an order of magnitude due to autisticly intense attention to details. Hint: a mild form of autism, what casuals call Asperger, given that one survived childhood constant bullying and confusion about its causes, is actually good to have.

http://mindend.com/index.php/interview-with-the-creator-of-n...

This interview seems to confirm St.Johns obervations

Re: Dispelling myths about the autistic programmer

#16

Post by lucio » Sat, Jul 09, 2016, 3:00 PM UTC

morgante wrote: post #12

lucio wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then it is good to consider autism an advantage in programming jobs, so people that are actually autistic have special treatment in the sector. The question is: How many out-of-the-ordinary programmers have some form of mild arperger's? 90%? 99%? none?

We can't just "consider autism an advantage in programming jobs." It's not. The majority of programmers are not autistic and there are large parts of programming jobs which are very difficult for autistic people to cope with. At best, autism is less of a disadvantage in programming than in other jobs. That's why it makes sense to focus on programming as a field for autistic individuals to move towards, though in prac…

please do not ignore the "out-of-the-ordinary" part. I'm not talking about "all programmers".

Read this interview of the creator of Nginx:

http://mindend.com/index.php/interview-with-the-creator-of-n...

Re: Dispelling myths about the autistic programmer

#17

Post by afarrell » Sat, Jul 09, 2016, 3:03 PM UTC

> "The internet has kind of killed my 'autistic pride,' so to speak," says Gillmer. "The constant use of it as an insult makes me want to hide it, so I tend to not bring it up unless it feels like I'm not communicating properly."

I cannot for the life of me understand why I see "aspie" or "spergy" used as insults on both reddit and tumblr.

Re: Dispelling myths about the autistic programmer

#18

Post by EliRivers » Sat, Jul 09, 2016, 3:03 PM UTC

lordleft wrote: post #3

stared wrote: post #2

IMHO it is the problem of trying to make things black and white: either being diseases (or worse: used as an insult) or a super-power (or: an excuse). Usually it's a combination of special skills, and special needs (and things which are just different). As with almost every other psychological "deviation" from the norm. Hence "neurodiversity" not "neurosuperiority", or the traditional medical distinction between "hea…

This is a healthy attitude I think. Like anything, autism comes with trade-offs.

Trade-offs. The negatives of autism are pretty clear; what are the advantages?

Re: Dispelling myths about the autistic programmer

#19

Post by Retra » Sat, Jul 09, 2016, 3:04 PM UTC

lucio wrote: post #11

morgante wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact is that people who are actually autistic struggle to gain employment anywhere, including as software developers. The vast majority of programmers are not autistic. The stereotype that they are is damaging both to programmers (by typecasting them) and to autistic people (by ignoring their real challenges).

Then it is good to consider autism an advantage in programming jobs, so people that are actually autistic have special treatment in the sector. The question is: How many out-of-the-ordinary programmers have some form of mild arperger's? 90%? 99%? none?

"Special treatment" that results in 80-hour work weeks?

Re: Dispelling myths about the autistic programmer

#20

Post by adrusi » Sat, Jul 09, 2016, 3:04 PM UTC

dschiptsov wrote: post #7

Tell that to guys like Igor Sysoev, who outperformed averages by an order of magnitude due to autisticly intense attention to details. Hint: a mild form of autism, what casuals call Asperger, given that one survived childhood constant bullying and confusion about its causes, is actually good to have.

Maybe its neutral or slightly better in adulthood, but only if the autism isn't accompanied by other problems that frequently accompany autism, such as language disabilities and anxiety.