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Amazon software engineer interview

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Re: Amazon software engineer interview

#161

Post by ajeet_dhaliwal »

somethingsimple wrote: post #105
blueatlas wrote: post #9

In total I had a little less than one month to prepare for the interview. I can't help but to wonder if it was really worth it. Surely, his prep helped him get the job, but the entire prep stage he describes seems like a very high up-front cost. I've always felt that if I can't get through an interview with a little prep and my existing skills, I don't belong. You should know exactly why you want to work for Amazon.…

> It would be interesting to know more about his desire to work for Amazon that badly. Amazon is basically the company I really, really, really want to work for, and the only reason I don't apply is that I have a small kid and a wife already working there, and I know how chaotic life would be if I did it now. So I'm waiting for the kid to grow a little more. Now, the reason I want to work there so much is that I see…

Your kid must be really smart :-) I actually admire Amazon from the outside for the same reasons you do but I'm not too keen on working there because of stories it's rough for employees. Does your wife like it? Is she a developer?

Re: Amazon software engineer interview

#162

Post by WalterBright »

dozzie wrote: post #158
WalterBright wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, if you asked me cold about various algorithms, I'd probably bomb the answer. But that isn't a problem, as when I need to know some detail it's trivial to look it up. But if I'm going on an interview for a job I cared about, and I expected algorithm questions, I'd consider trolling up on that stuff to be required homework.

That's an approach I don't understand. If you would "bomb the answer", it means you don't understand and don't feel the algorithm behind. Merely "looking up some detail" doesn't help with that. It's not like one can look some detail up when he doesn't remember the detail was even there. Good software programmer needs a large working set of such details to sensibly function in a professional setting.

Being an educated person is not necessarily being a walking encyclopedia of detail. But it is knowing where to find the information needed at the moment. That's why there are reference books for professionals, like the CRC Handbook.

For another example, nobody knows every detail in the C++ Standard. But a professional is expected to know how to look up a detail in the Standard as required. That doesn't mean he doesn't understand the language.

Maybe you never need to look anything up. But I'm not that kind of person, and don't know anyone that is.

Re: Amazon software engineer interview

#163

Post by WalterBright »

tluyben2 wrote: post #156
WalterBright wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. I figure also that a candidate who'll do the homework necessary to prepare for the interview rather than winging it will be more likely to do the homework necessary for the real problems he'll face at work. (I've known many engineers who wing things at work rather than spend the time to research a correct solution, and not just in software.)

Hi Walter, nice to see you again; another (similar to last time) interview process, another discussion here :) Not sure which country you are from, assuming US here; seems your experiences, again, vary wildly from what I see here. The refusal to study this useless stuff upfront had absolutely no baring on their 'refusal of whatever' on the workfloor or 'winging things at work'; employees should refuse things that are…

> absolutely no baring

That's not been my experience. I've seen a strong correlation.

> show their willingness to do whatever they are told

I don't think it's the same thing. I've told many of the people I've worked for that what they asked me to do was a waste of their resources. One told me "do it 'cuz I'm the boss and I say so" to which I replied "at the salary you're paying me, I feel obliged to tell you that what you're asking will never work". :-)

Nevertheless, if you know upfront that at a job interview you will be asked certain questions, and you choose to go to the job interview, it seems bizarre to not come prepared. Why bother?

Re: Amazon software engineer interview

#164

Post by tluyben2 »

WalterBright wrote: post #163
tluyben2 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi Walter, nice to see you again; another (similar to last time) interview process, another discussion here :) Not sure which country you are from, assuming US here; seems your experiences, again, vary wildly from what I see here. The refusal to study this useless stuff upfront had absolutely no baring on their 'refusal of whatever' on the workfloor or 'winging things at work'; employees should refuse things that are…

> absolutely no baring That's not been my experience. I've seen a strong correlation. > show their willingness to do whatever they are told I don't think it's the same thing. I've told many of the people I've worked for that what they asked me to do was a waste of their resources. One told me "do it 'cuz I'm the boss and I say so" to which I replied "at the salary you're paying me, I feel obliged to tell you that wha…

> That's not been my experience. I've seen a strong correlation.

Like said, might be culture or maybe I have been lucky.

In my country (I haven't lived there for a while so might've changed but I don't think so) and my company we were not so salary obsessed, so 'at the salary you pay me' is a phrase used never in our office of few 100 colleagues. If you make 5 or 9 figures a year; if the boss tells me 'do it cuz i'm the boss' I'm not doing it if it's a stupid idea and I expect that from my colleagues even if I outrank them technically.

So still thinking it's culture as well; here you cannot fire people easily; you have to make a dossier (with obvious mistakes/flaws etc) and go to a judge and then pay them a few months. So there needs to be much more of a trust relation than master/slave relation imho. Note that we only needed that twice when the employees where watching/downloading pr0n all day. One was a junior designer and the other a phone support employee for our cms.

Edit: btw, i'm not saying I like that system per-se; in some countries (like Spain) it goes too far and you won't hire people because you can't fire them, but in NL I had no actively sabotaging people (you can't fire me so I do just enough); quite the opposite, while in Spain I meet too many of them.

Re: Amazon software engineer interview

#166

Post by WalterBright »

tluyben2 wrote: post #164
WalterBright wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> absolutely no baring That's not been my experience. I've seen a strong correlation. > show their willingness to do whatever they are told I don't think it's the same thing. I've told many of the people I've worked for that what they asked me to do was a waste of their resources. One told me "do it 'cuz I'm the boss and I say so" to which I replied "at the salary you're paying me, I feel obliged to tell you that wha…

> That's not been my experience. I've seen a strong correlation. Like said, might be culture or maybe I have been lucky. In my country (I haven't lived there for a while so might've changed but I don't think so) and my company we were not so salary obsessed, so 'at the salary you pay me' is a phrase used never in our office of few 100 colleagues. If you make 5 or 9 figures a year; if the boss tells me 'do it cuz i'm…

I don't know if it's a culture thing or not, but if I'm paid low I expect I am being paid to do what I'm told, but if I'm paid high I expect that I am being paid for my expertise, and that includes advising the boss. (It's not about being obsessed with salary.)

None of this should be construed as a master/slave relationship.

For an analogy, if I go to McDonald's I am not interested in the opinions of the cashier, I just want to pay the money and get the burger. If I'm going to an expensive restaurant, I'm interested in the opinions of the waiter about what to order - that's part of what I'm paying for.

Re: Amazon software engineer interview

#167

Post by lsh »

geoelectric wrote: post #76
bronz wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what do i do if im a terrible person to work with? its something i really struggle with.

Assuming you're serious, there are a number of books out there about working with people with unfortunate personalities. I've generally found those kinds of books more instructive towards my own behavior than books that claim to fix your own personality. Sometimes you need perspective more than instructions. My experience (both first and third-hand) is that being terrible to work/play/exist around often comes from no…

people don't have homogeneous personalities that allow them to neatly fit like bricks into office culture. the natural pressures of any business weed out the dissenters and those that can't quietly work with others or with the decisions being made or [... whatever your problems are ...]. Changing your 'unfortunate personality' (so condescending!) with a book is probably not the answer - you'll change naturally at your own pace in your own direction - but definitely consider going freelance or job-hop until you find somewhere you can tolerate working at. Not all people and organisations are shit, just most of them most of the time. You'll find your niche, my misanthropic comrade.

Re: Amazon software engineer interview

#168

Post by driverdan »

gaza3g wrote: post #146
driverdan wrote: post #129

Between bad interviews I've been in or read about and spending the past 6+ months working on our hiring process I've become very opinionated about hiring. The process Amazon and many other tech companies use is fucking terrible. Algorithm tests and surprise CS 101 questions do not identify good employees. They're biased towards recent grads, do not address most real world situations, can be gamed through studying, an…

Can you post an example of what a typical outline would look like? As someone who interviews a lot, I'm quite interested in implementing a no-surprise interview process for the place I'm currently at as I too have been at the other end of a lot of bad interviews.

Here's an excerpt of what we send:

Before you make your decision, please read the following:

The OwnLocal Engineering team is transparent. We want to make sure you have clear expectations about our hiring process, so we've outlined for you. If you are unable or unwilling to complete our entire process, that's okay! The last thing we want to do is waste your time, so please let us know.

Our hiring process consists of six steps: application, phone interview, project, meet and greet, on-site technical & culture fit interviews, and finally an offer.

Phone Interview

The phone interviewer will ask about your background, recent projects, and ask questions related to the skills we look for. We’ll give you time to ask questions too.

Project

The project is a small application related to what we do at OwnLocal. You’ll work with mocked or anonymized data in the same format as our real data.

Meet and Greet

The meet and greet is not a formal interview, it’s a chance for our team and you to get to know each other. We hang out for an hour, ask each other questions, and discuss our interests.

If you’re not local we’ll do a video call instead with 3-4 people.

On-site Technical & Culture Fit Interviews

The formal interview is two parts. The first is adding an additional feature to your project with one of our engineers. This allows us to evaluate how you work with our team. The second part is contingent on the results of your technical interview. If you pass the technical portion, we'll ask you to stay for culture fit interviews with people from different teams.

Re: Amazon software engineer interview

#169

Post by driverdan »

nojvek wrote: post #147
driverdan wrote: post #129

Between bad interviews I've been in or read about and spending the past 6+ months working on our hiring process I've become very opinionated about hiring. The process Amazon and many other tech companies use is fucking terrible. Algorithm tests and surprise CS 101 questions do not identify good employees. They're biased towards recent grads, do not address most real world situations, can be gamed through studying, an…

This is awesome. What company is this?

http://www.ownlocal.com/about/jobs/

Re: Amazon software engineer interview

#170

Post by driverdan »

soham wrote: post #77
geoelectric wrote: post #40

I'm all for interview prep, but this sounds like a fairly standard tech company loop. I usually take a few days to brush up on algorithms and structures for the first one I do in a batch, and have some canned answers for the personal questions, but otherwise go in with what I know. Some of that's experience now, but I don't remember any point in my career where I'd have done something this extensive. I hope the poste…

Interesting and valid points. I have some things to add. Disclaimer first: I'm a technical interview coach. We run http://InterviewKickstart.com , which provides structured and intense group programs for early and mid-career software engineers, with the sole purpose of preparing for technical interviews. In an ideal world, brushing up is all what it should take before going into interviews. Practicing Software Engine…

> With the plethora of prep material available for past several years, the bar for interviewing has just moved higher and higher at good companies. If you look at G and F (and some others), there is no way you can get away with just knowing the basics of trees and binary searches. It just takes time.

This is so idiotic. Asking about binary searches does not identify good candidates unless they're going to be doing a lot of binary searches.

If someone asks me stupid CS 101 questions in an interview it's a red flag to me.

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