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Facebook Messenger begins testing end-to-end encryption using Signal Protocol

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Re: Facebook Messenger begins testing end-to-end encryption using Signal Protocol

#271

Post by xufi »

StavrosK wrote: post #66
SixSigma wrote: post #7

I'm still sticking with the website version, thanks https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.facebook.o... Messenger, Facebook This app has access to: Identity find accounts on the device read your own contact card add or remove accounts Contacts find accounts on the device read your contacts modify your contacts Location precise location (GPS and network-based) approximate location (network-based) SMS edit…

I use Swipe for Facebook ever since they got rid of messages. It needs no permission, and while the experience can't be as good as Messenger, it will at least let me reply to the occasional message I receive. I don't want to be encouraging Facebook's user-hostile moves, so I'll stop using messages completely if they make my life hard enough, but Swipe is a nice stopgap.

Coupled with how buggy its been on the iPhone platform since i got my phone I don't use it at all

Re: Facebook Messenger begins testing end-to-end encryption using Signal Protocol

#272

Post by bobbyd3 »

eropple wrote: post #245
AckSyn wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's not a joke and you shouldn't treat it as such. Non-technical people really shouldn't be whining that their "free service" doesn't cater to a click-and-run crowd. The source is available to the public to create their own, and changing a URL in the code is a single regex command away. Don't casually disregard him because you or others can't understand basics of doing what it takes to alter and run a service in…

I don't casually disregard him. I thoughtfully and with consideration disregard him, and you as well. The idea that there is a priestly-class of technical people and "non-technical people shouldn't whine" is silly. This is not for technical people. This is for non-technical people. I've been doing this stuff for twenty years. But me being able to do it doesn't do a damned thing to help the people who actually need he…

^ this

Re: Facebook Messenger begins testing end-to-end encryption using Signal Protocol

#273

Post by free2rhyme214 »

nocarrier wrote: post #166
bertil wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am not usually one for paranoia, but is anyone else becoming more suspicious about Facebooks motivations and involvement with gov? I worked for Facebook; I am friends with the people who developed this: I would like to reassure you strongly (well, as much as an Internet stranger can) on their motives. They are the good guys, and this was develop with people being spied on by abusive governments in mind — because…

I'm former FB Infra and agree with your first point re: motives. There's a lot of true believers working in the security space at Facebook, and I have tons of respect for them. I used to work closely with many of them. However, scaling and/or capacity is not the reason E2E encryption isn't applied on all messages. The crypto operations are relatively trivial in terms of cpu. This comment summarizes what FB's CSO said…

Usability with Facebook M, much like Google Allo, will require E2E encryption to be turned off in order to take advantage of those features. Alex didn't mention that, but I think that's the real reason. Also FB wants to know what's going on in your conversations. That metadata can be used for advertising.

Re: Facebook Messenger begins testing end-to-end encryption using Signal Protocol

#274

Post by eyeareque »

StavrosK wrote: post #64
eyeareque wrote: post #22

Moxie and team, bravo. You've made the snoopers jobs a whole lot harder. Your goal of making encryption easy to use by the masses is coming come true. It looks as if PGP's days are numbered.

> It looks as if PGP's days are numbered. This seems gratuitously hostile (and, even worse, is irrelevant). PGP is a very useful piece of software, and it does something completely different from Signal, and I'm glad both exist.

PGP while a decent technology is very cumbersome. Worse, it's easy to shoot yourself in the foot if you aren't an advanced level user. I've used it for years on a regular basis with various implementations. It's just never been user friendly or easy to use. If it was more user friendly it might have had better adoption rates. As moxie has pointed out, we need something better for the masses, it looks like we are finally seeing progress towards that goal now.

Re: Facebook Messenger begins testing end-to-end encryption using Signal Protocol

#276

Post by Quiark »

Sylos wrote: post #239
wepple wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

are you serious? you're suggesting that the metadata of "alice messaged bob at 1:20am" is worth more than "hey bob, I'm looking to have $100,000 laundered, same methods as last time. I'll drop to the usual location. thanks, Alice."

Well, yeah, without meta-data, you only know that someone messaged someone about laundering money. You have no clue who it is, so it's ultimately pretty useless. Whereas with just meta-data, you can still at least figure out who the guy is talking to, even if you cannot figure out over this way that the guy is laundering money.

But the situation being compared is 'metadata' vs 'metadata + content'

Re: Facebook Messenger begins testing end-to-end encryption using Signal Protocol

#277

Post by baudehlo »

eropple wrote: post #245
AckSyn wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's not a joke and you shouldn't treat it as such. Non-technical people really shouldn't be whining that their "free service" doesn't cater to a click-and-run crowd. The source is available to the public to create their own, and changing a URL in the code is a single regex command away. Don't casually disregard him because you or others can't understand basics of doing what it takes to alter and run a service in…

I don't casually disregard him. I thoughtfully and with consideration disregard him, and you as well. The idea that there is a priestly-class of technical people and "non-technical people shouldn't whine" is silly. This is not for technical people. This is for non-technical people. I've been doing this stuff for twenty years. But me being able to do it doesn't do a damned thing to help the people who actually need he…

And yet the same argument has been made time and time again against SMTP. Let's stand back for a second and understand why SMTP has stood the test of time. Yes it has flaws that allow the "first contact" problem (ie spam). But the people working on SMTP at least understand the weaknesses and advantages of that.

Re: Facebook Messenger begins testing end-to-end encryption using Signal Protocol

#278

Post by arximboldi »

Arathorn wrote: post #207
arximboldi wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hundreds of millions use Messenger from a web browser. No secure way to verify code or store keys without routing through mobile. I wouldn't use the web version if they had not disabled Jabber access... and then I could use OTR. This trend makes me very sad... IM networks are getting more centralized as ever. I don't feel thankful for this kind of development. End-to-end encryption should not be a feature of the serv…

Enabling interoperable chat to non-nerdy friends is basically Matrix's raison d'être. We're not there yet (see https://matrix.org/blog/2016/07/04/the-matrix-summer-special... for the current status), but if we don't provide it we will have failed in the whole mission to defragment these silos, letting users choose which service to trust without losing interoperability. The good news is that the Olm end-to-end cryptog…

Thanks a lot for your work on Matrix. It is definitely one of the projects (like Syncthing, IPFS or GNU Social) that gives me enough hope to not run to the caves so early :)

Re: Facebook Messenger begins testing end-to-end encryption using Signal Protocol

#279

Post by singham »

reacweb wrote: post #117
_Understated_ wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A by product of what? 86% of their profits come from advertising[1]. If that's not the definition of an ad company then I don't know what is. [1] - http://adage.com/article/digital/google-q4-2015-earnings/302...

That is not the point. Money is just a mean. Read http://www.artificialbrains.com/google http://bigdata-madesimple.com/12-famous-quotes-on-artificial... http://mashable.com/2015/05/12/elon-musk-fears-larry-page/#1... http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2460571,00.asp .

Because of people like you, I am able to strengthen my bullshit filter.

Re: Facebook Messenger begins testing end-to-end encryption using Signal Protocol

#280

Post by ffggvv »

SixSigma wrote: post #153
ffggvv wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you using Facebook in the first place? I thought the HN valued their privacy. Try https://hubzilla.site instead.

My hive mind is malfunctioning

Yep, it seems so. Every time there's a post about how bad Facebook, Chrome are everyone screams "It's the average user's fault!" And here you are...
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