Running Is Always Blind • Hacker News Board

Re: Running Is Always Blind

#11

Post by ksk » Fri, Jul 08, 2016, 3:42 PM UTC

corecoder wrote: post #3

Interesting article, but I don't get why so much surprise at the notion that we don't consciously control every single muscle, joint and nerve as we run. We never ever consciously control every anything, period. Just try to list the movements of each phalanx as you tie your shoes or even scratch your head, and you'll easily see that we just have no idea.

Well, because that isn't what the article said at all. You're conflating controlling every muscle with a high level planning of avoiding obstacles. The latter is what the article talks about.

Re: Running Is Always Blind

#12

Post by js2 » Fri, Jul 08, 2016, 3:47 PM UTC

Jurek never looks down, no matter how uneven the ground may be.

Scott Jurek is one of the greatest trail/ultra-runners of all time, but I find this hard to believe. Of course you don't look directly down at your feet, but your gaze (at least, my gaze) when trail running is a few feet in front of you, much closer than when running on a smooth surface. He must have a visual image of what's in front of him.

I run a lot of road miles (60+/week), with the occasional trail run, and I'm not a very good trail runner (went down three times in a 12 mile trail run a couple weeks ago). I find trail running much more mentally taxing than road running. I'm constantly scanning the ground for trip hazards, then looking up for branches and turns. I don't dare look at my watch. If my attention flags for a second, that's exactly when a root grabs my foot or my toe slams into a rock. A lot of this may be due to poor technique (I don't lift my legs as much as I should) or the rather rugged single-track where I run. And then there's running poorly marked trails where you have to navigate as you go, which is another issue altogether.

In any case, interesting article. Single-track trail running is definitely a different beast than road, track, or cross-country.

Re: Running Is Always Blind

#13

Post by LeifCarrotson » Fri, Jul 08, 2016, 7:32 PM UTC

js2 wrote: post #12

Jurek never looks down, no matter how uneven the ground may be. Scott Jurek is one of the greatest trail/ultra-runners of all time, but I find this hard to believe. Of course you don't look directly down at your feet, but your gaze (at least, my gaze) when trail running is a few feet in front of you, much closer than when running on a smooth surface. He must have a visual image of what's in front of him. I run a lot…

Technique/form and experience definitely make a big difference in trail running. I usually do about 30 mpw on trails, and my gaze is 10-20 meters ahead, or yes, at my watch. Peripheral vision, I think, plays a large role. That's a reflex you have to train.

And single-track running shouldn't be that much different than cross country running: The races aren't meant to be held on golf courses!

Re: Running Is Always Blind

#14

Post by js2 » Fri, Jul 08, 2016, 7:45 PM UTC

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #13

js2 wrote: post #12

Jurek never looks down, no matter how uneven the ground may be. Scott Jurek is one of the greatest trail/ultra-runners of all time, but I find this hard to believe. Of course you don't look directly down at your feet, but your gaze (at least, my gaze) when trail running is a few feet in front of you, much closer than when running on a smooth surface. He must have a visual image of what's in front of him. I run a lot…

Technique/form and experience definitely make a big difference in trail running. I usually do about 30 mpw on trails, and my gaze is 10-20 meters ahead, or yes, at my watch. Peripheral vision, I think, plays a large role. That's a reflex you have to train. And single-track running shouldn't be that much different than cross country running: The races aren't meant to be held on golf courses!

I didn't run in school so I haven't seen a lot of xc courses. I just occasionally run on a local xc course. It's all screened gravel, except for a single (long) grass hill. I've run a couple other xc courses and they've all been easy compared to the local single-track. I recently ran the UIUC xc course and it's an all grass loop around their arboretum with a single man-made "hill".

The single-track in my area is very rugged, with lots of roots and exposed jagged rock, so I think that may be part of it too. But point taken.